#define: legendary (Friends)
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
1hr 52min Jun 7, 2024
What happens when you take three #define newbs (Thomas Eckert, Nick Nisi, Mat Ryer) & pit them against the grizzled vet, Adam? Find out on this episode because our award-worthy game of fake definitions is back & this time it’s even more legendary!
Changelog++ members get a bonus 6 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!
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Featuring:
- Thomas Eckert – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, X
- Nick Nisi – Website, GitHub, Bluesky, Mastodon, X
- Mat Ryer – GitHub, LinkedIn, Bluesky, X
- Jerod Santo – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, X
- Adam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, X
Show Notes:
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!
Jerod Santo
Hello, and welcome back to pound \#define, our 100% original, and in no way copied from Balderdash game show, where you're rewarded for lying like a skilled politician. My name is Jerod Santo, and we have some great competitors today... And we have Nick Nisi.
Nick Nisi
Ahoy-hoy.
Jerod Santo
Hey, Nick. Welcome to \#define.
Nick Nisi
Happy to be here.
Jerod Santo
Listeners of the Changelog may remember Nick's voice as a regular panelist on JS Party, your weekly celebration of JavaScript and the web.
Nick Nisi
And TypeScript.
Jerod Santo
No, no, no, no... Don't start the lying until the definitions fly. We're also joined by a listener and sometimes guest - I guess recurring guest now - Thomas Eckert. Welcome, Thomas.
Thomas Eckert
Hello. Happy to be here. Excited to join these legends. Legends of the Changelog.
Jerod Santo
We do have some Changelog legends here, waiting in the wings... Where are they? No, here they are! It's Mat Ryer. What's up, Mat?
Mat Ryer
Hello, everybody. It's nice to be here.
Jerod Santo
How do you like to be described as a legend?
Mat Ryer
It's alright, actually... It's just the first time it's happened.
Jerod Santo
You'll take it?
Mat Ryer
Just let it sink in. Let me think. Yeah, it feels pretty good. Yeah. It's very nice.
Adam Stacoviak
You'll take it. Alright. Speaking of the legend, it's my partner in crime, Adam Stacoviak. What's up, dude?
What's up? I'm here. I'm back.
Jerod Santo
I feel like you're well positioned, because we played this game a few times... This is our third iteration of \#define. However, we have no returning guests. We got rid of Taylor Troesh. He's too good. Lars, way too serious. Amal... Too much.
Adam Stacoviak
Too much. \[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
And we've got these guys. So I think you have an upper hand, because you have experience and they do not.
Adam Stacoviak
If I don't win, there's something wrong. Okay?
Mat Ryer
With you.
Adam Stacoviak
With me, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Correct.
Adam Stacoviak
That was implied, with me. But yes, thank you for being specific.
Nick Nisi
Adam, I just noticed the lava lamp behind you.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, yeah.
Nick Nisi
I know you're into homeland. Is that -- home lab, not homeland. Is that \[unintelligible 00:04:07.18\] key generator?
Adam Stacoviak
It's my -- yeah, what do you call those things...?
Jerod Santo
Cloudflare Worker? \[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
No, they have a -- Nick is referring to this wall they have in the Cloudflare office, and they use it, I believe -- what do they use it for?
Mat Ryer
To generate random numbers.
Adam Stacoviak
A random generator kind of thing? Like a password generator?
Jerod Santo
Oh, really?
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, because it's never the same. That'd be cool if I did, but I don't. So... I'm sorry, Nick. It's just for looks.
Nick Nisi
Ideas.
Mat Ryer
It technically can be the same, right? It's just chance, but... It's probably not going to be the same, but it could just be exactly the same all day, and then all it's kicking out is two. And you're like "Come on, wall... We need more different random numbers, not just two...!" And you get angry with it. But then you're relaxed by just watching it, because it's lava lamps, so it chills you out.
Jerod Santo
And then it reminds you it's a pseudo random number generator. They're just pseudo random. So you get what you pay for, I guess.
Mat Ryer
No, but that one is real random, I think.
Adam Stacoviak
It could never be the same again.
Mat Ryer
It can be. It's random.
Adam Stacoviak
Maybe in a million years. Could it be the same in a million years?
Mat Ryer
It could be the same in one second, technically... It's just unlikely.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, that's true.
Jerod Santo
Well, this conversation will never be the same again, either... So let's get to the game. Here's how it works. This is the game of fake definitions. You all are tasked with basically lying to each other, pretending...
Adam Stacoviak
I like it.
Jerod Santo
...pseudo random definition generators, that you know the definition to these obscure, STEM jargon. I have 10 rounds of play. I will say the word, send it to you all, spell it out loud for our listener, and you will then write a definition for the word. I also have, of course, the correct definition... I will mix them together, read them out, and you will try to guess which is the correct definition.
\[00:05:59.15\] If you know the definition to start, and you submit to me the correct definition, you automatically get three points, which is the most points you can score for a single action... And you sit that round out. So you know, go have a drink of coffee, or something. If you don't get it right right away, I will gather them and read them during the reading time. If you guess the right one then, you get two points. And if you trick somebody else to guess your definition, you get one point. So for each person who selects yours, you get a point. And we get to 15 points first wins, or 10 rounds. That's how it goes. I'm sure that was convoluted as an explanation, because I was confusing myself as I went... But as the game starts, it will become immediately obvious how this works. So let's just get into it, and start with round one.
So the word for round one: cryptarythm. I will submit that to the chat... Please send me your fake definitions now. Okay, Nick has already submitted. So it's not based on speed, Nick, but I do appreciate that. I have Mat's definition... Adam is historically the slowest submitter...
Thomas Eckert
He's a deep thinker.
Jerod Santo
I have Thomas's... So soon as Adam is done, we will be ready.
Adam Stacoviak
I'm just trying to figure out how to spell rhythm.
Thomas Eckert
It's in the thing.
Adam Stacoviak
No, no. I mean the word rhythm.
Thomas Eckert
That's too tough.
Adam Stacoviak
It is a tough word to spell. I always get confused, and I always have to google it.
Jerod Santo
Do not google. There's no googling.
Thomas Eckert
R-H-Y-T-H-M.
Adam Stacoviak
Alright, I'm gonna send you an incorrect version of rhythm, basically.
Jerod Santo
You can't google, you can't DuckDuckGo, you cannot Ask Jeeves... Nor can you ask any sort of GPTs.
Mat Ryer
But you can just type in the word in Slack, and see if it's got an underline on it.
Jerod Santo
True.
Mat Ryer
That's one way to find out.
Jerod Santo
I will allow spellcheck. Good point, Mat.
Nick Nisi
But you can hack that maybe through like Grammarly, or something that's using an LLM to --
Mat Ryer
\[unintelligible 00:08:06.14\]
Jerod Santo
I guess if you hack \#define by using Grammarly, then I'll just submit to you unless you win the game.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah...
Mat Ryer
Also, it's interesting you say 'pound', because we don't say pound for that symbol. You're talking about the hash symbol.
Jerod Santo
I'm not. I'm talking about the pound sign.
Mat Ryer
Right. Which -- it's an octothorp, right? It's two lines... I think that's its technical name, is an octothorpe.
Thomas Eckert
Octothorpe Define, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Do you guys call it that because it looks like hashbrowns?
Mat Ryer
We don't really havehash browns though; they're from the US...
Jerod Santo
Well, what's wrong with you?
Thomas Eckert
They have beans. They just have beans and they have toast. That's it.
Jerod Santo
Just beans and toast?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Well, you should try hashbrowns are really good. \[laughter\]
Mat Ryer
Did you try beans on toast when you were in London, Nick?
Nick Nisi
I sure didn't. They gave it to me, and I set that aside.
Thomas Eckert
They gave it to you and you didn't eat?
Mat Ryer
You gave it back... You're like "No, thank you..."
Jerod Santo
Some of the best food I had in London was at the local McDonald's.
Mat Ryer
That's so American...
Nick Nisi
It was at the airport lounge...
Mat Ryer
No, that's the place to try it, if you're gonna go... If you're gonna go for it. You want to have it done properly. You want to get yourself to terminal three. Nick, when you say "Someone gave it to me", surely in context of a restaurant or something... Like, they didn't just give it to you in the airport.
Jerod Santo
They're just discarding it. They figured "Here, you have it."
Nick Nisi
Yeah... Going through security, they just hand it to you...
Mat Ryer
Yeah. It's just someone else's beans on toast that they weren't allowed through. Actually, that's not a bad idea.
Thomas Eckert
Well, the thing is, there's only one beans on toast in the entire country... But no one actually likes it, but you've got to pretend like you like it, so you kind of just keep passing it on... And it's been hot-potatoing around between people for decades.
Adam Stacoviak
That's how sourdough started.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, it's the same principle. I love that it's one beans on toast. Like, the beans on toast is a singular. And there's one of them. I love that.
Jerod Santo
\[00:09:51.22\] Yeah. Well, the beans are plural, but the toast is singular. Yes. Alright, I now have all definitions... A quick disclaimer, I do my darndest to read these as straight as possible... In fact, I close my video so I can't see your faces, and I just read, as if I'm the only one in the room. Having said that, it's still really hard, because some of these get to be a little bit zany... Thankfully, Taylor Troesh is not here, because he's trolling pretty much every round. And so... Maybe Mat will troll, I don't know. But there's my disclaimer. If I laugh, it's not because it's not the right definition. It's because I think something's funny.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. But you also find quite weird things funny. I listened to an episode of this last time and you were in hysterics for 10 minutes... And then when you read it out, it was just a sentence.
Jerod Santo
The first episode I almost broke it. Yeah. But I did a much better job in the second episode. So if you want to go back and listen, skip around one of episode one... In which I darn near break the show. Okay, let's see if I break the show this time.
Cryptarythm is an algorithm for generating cryptographic signatures. Or the subtle vibrations that occur in underground burial sites due to the crypt settling. Or the rhythm, also known as cryptorhythmic sequencing of adding and subtracting numbers in cryptographic algorithms. Or a puzzle where you are given an arithmetical expression where the digits have been replaced by letters. Or finally, a drumbeat used as a password, usually tapped out on a keypad or keyboard.
There you have it, five definitions for cryptarythm. One of those is the correct definition. Nick, you're up first. Which one do you think it is?
Nick Nisi
How do I answer?
Jerod Santo
You can answer by the number, you can answer by the one saying generally this, and I will confirm with you. You can just kind of talk about it. It's fine, we'll figure it out. Okay.
Nick Nisi
I'm gonna say the one -- the puzzle, where you're...
Jerod Santo
A puzzle where you're given arithmetical expressions, where the digits have been replaced by letters?
Nick Nisi
Yes.
Jerod Santo
Alright. That's number four. I gave that to Nick, and we go to Thomas.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, so I'll think about these... You've got to algorithm-like ones. Those are both interesting, attractive... I'm also drawn to the puzzle one. I think it's interesting, this idea -- I looked at cryptarythm and I thought crypto, right? You know, cryptography. But now that I read this one about \[unintelligible 00:12:22.20\]
Adam Stacoviak
Vibrations, yes.
Thomas Eckert
Vibrations. That makes a lot of sense. Like, maybe I'm actually -- you know how a helicopter is actually heli copter...
Jerod Santo
Oh, school us.
Thomas Eckert
...where you actually \[unintelligible 00:12:35.21\] word is different... You don't know that?
Jerod Santo
No. Tell me more.
Thomas Eckert
Oh. We say helicopter, right?
Jerod Santo
Correct.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Matt, do you say that?
Mat Ryer
I do. All the time. I'm always saying it.
Thomas Eckert
No, no, no. They say whirly birds...
Jerod Santo
Oh, you guys have whirly birds.
Adam Stacoviak
Whirly birds...
Mat Ryer
Yeah, that's the proper one.
Thomas Eckert
Whirly birds, and... Yeah, no. That's how they imported the beans.
Jerod Santo
Through a whirly bird, of course.
Thomas Eckert
We say it like helicopter, but the actual origin of the word would split. So pter is the wing... It's Greek. It's the same thing where you get like pterodactyl.
Jerod Santo
It's all Greek to me.
Thomas Eckert
I know. So you wouldn't say --
Jerod Santo
So what's helicop mean?
Thomas Eckert
Helico-pter. If you were to split where the words --
Adam Stacoviak
Is he spitting on me?
Jerod Santo
I feel like he's just spitting on us.
Thomas Eckert
I'm spitting knowledge.
Jerod Santo
Okay...
Thomas Eckert
You know? But maybe it's like that, where you need to split the word in a different place. You know, crypt.
Jerod Santo
You're going for the one that says "Vibrations occur in an underground burial sites due to the crypt settling."
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, but I'm still drawn to the puzzle one. I think I'll go with the puzzle one...
Jerod Santo
Alright. He's piling on...
Thomas Eckert
Piling on.
Jerod Santo
Now, let me remind you of the spread. The spread is wherein you don't all pick the same answer, because if nobody gets the correct answer, I, your humble moderator, sometimes not so humble moderator, will score three points. And if I reach 15 before anybody else, you'll never hear the end of it. Okay, so he's gonna pile on with Nick on the puzzle. Puzzling... Adam, what do you think?
Adam Stacoviak
Can I get a readback, please?
Jerod Santo
\[00:14:11.16\] Of which ones?
Adam Stacoviak
All of them. \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
I will give you a quick summary of each, okay?
Adam Stacoviak
Please, and thank you.
Jerod Santo
Number one was the algorithm for generating cryptographic signatures. Number two was the subtle vibrations that Thomas was talking about.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay, yes.
Jerod Santo
Underground burial sites. Number three was the rhythm of adding and subtracting numbers in cryptographic algorithms. Number four was the puzzle. And number five was the drumbeat used as a password.
Adam Stacoviak
The last two - well, middle and last two are kind of STEM-related... So I've gotta go in the STEM. Plus the pile-on is making me feel like maybe I'm not smart here, and they're smart, so I'm gonna just do what sheep do and follow, so I'm gonna be a sheep today. But I don't know, that last one... Read it again, please. Let's see how -- can you hear me the exact version of it, so I can hear...?
Jerod Santo
Number five - a drumbeat used as a password, usually tapped out on a keypad or keyboard.
Thomas Eckert
Think about that, like \[unintelligible 00:15:08.05\]
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, yeah...
Thomas Eckert
That's kind of a password.
Mat Ryer
On each key.
Jerod Santo
It's maybe a cryptarythm.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, maybe it predates...
Adam Stacoviak
It's a rhythm that's crypt.
Jerod Santo
Right.
Nick Nisi
It's the rhythm of you getting scammed...
Adam Stacoviak
Well, thanks, Nick.
Jerod Santo
Oh, man...
Adam Stacoviak
You're putting it out there. Okay, puzzle. I'm piling on, Jerod.
Jerod Santo
You're piling on puzzle.
Adam Stacoviak
It's very STEM. It's very STEM.
Jerod Santo
This is concerning... Okay. I'm winding up a win here, perhaps, or a loss. We'll see. Mat, you are the last to choose. So far, three puzzlers. What are you thinking?
Mat Ryer
I'm still trying to get over that helicopter news. That bombshell has just really shaken me, to be honest... \[laughter\] I can't believe you're supposed to say it like that...
Thomas Eckert
You don't need to worry about that.
Jerod Santo
That was a psychological operation.
Thomas Eckert
You're not supposed to say it like that.
Adam Stacoviak
Do you break it down to say Whirlybi-rd?
Thomas Eckert
Whirdly-bird?
Mat Ryer
Oh yeah, that's it.
Adam Stacoviak
And the Greek?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, the Greek, I don't know... I was gonna learn Greek, but it's got too much maths in it. I'm not very good at maths. I shouldn't have to calculate pi halfway through a word... You know what I mean? We won't be playing that.
Thomas Eckert
\[unintelligible 00:16:10.27\]
Mat Ryer
The spelling of cryptarythm I think tells us it's not the rhythm one. And also, when I heard the real definition of this, I remembered that I did know this. So I was a little bit disappointed with myself. But I'm pretty confident that it is the puzzle. So I'm gonna pile on, baby...! Pile on!
Jerod Santo
The pile!
Mat Ryer
Is there a theme tune for if everyone piles on?
Adam Stacoviak
We need a pile-on theme.
Jerod Santo
Can you write one real quick?
Mat Ryer
Yeah...
Jerod Santo
Alright. Pile-on theme tune.
\[00:16:43.19\]
*Where has our individuality gone...? We're all saying the same thing... It's a pile-on... It's a pile-on...!*
Lovely.
Adam Stacoviak
It's a pile-on. And in post, as we speak, Breakmaster Cylinder is remixing that. In the moment. So there's gonna be some beeps and boops and some blops.
Jerod Santo
It'll come out sounding better, probably. A little better.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, he's gonna autotune that thing, so it'll be good.
Mat Ryer
I already had autotune on, in my voice.
Adam Stacoviak
He's gonna meta-tune it.
Jerod Santo
Oh, did you? You tuned it yourself as you went.
Mat Ryer
By the way, Adam, I had a thought earlier... You wanted Jerod to repeat all the answers. You can just use the back 10 seconds on your phone to go back 10 seconds and listen to that bit again.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. I was trying that, but it didn't work.
Jerod Santo
The hard part's catching up, you know?
Thomas Eckert
You need the new Windows PC, where it records your entire life, so you can just go back.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, yeah. Recall. Was it Recall?
Thomas Eckert
Recall.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, Recall.
Thomas Eckert
Well, I don't know if there's gonna be a recall on that...
Adam Stacoviak
There might be a recall on Recall...
Jerod Santo
\[00:17:58.02\] Total recall. \[laughter\] Even better. Alright, how do we land this helicopter? We say the correct answer was... The puzzle! You all got it!
Adam Stacoviak
Sweet!
Mat Ryer
Pile-on vindicated...!
Jerod Santo
So two points for Mat, two points for Adam, two points for Thomas, two points for Nick, zero for me... But that's okay.
Adam Stacoviak
It's a tie.
Jerod Santo
And after round one, it is a four-way tie for first place. Also, circumstantially, last place. So don't forget that. You're all tied for last. We move now to round two, where our word is graviton. The word for round two is graviton. I have Thomas's definition...
Mat Ryer
How do we know it's not gravy-ton? Like, loads of gravy.
Jerod Santo
Do you guys have gravy over there?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, but... Is it different? It's probably different, ain't it?
Thomas Eckert
It's just the juice around the beans... So you know how beans come in a liquid? They just drain that off. That's what they call gravy.
Mat Ryer
I don't even really eat beans on toast very often, Thomas... I usually just have toast on the beans. That's my favorite.
Thomas Eckert
Toast under beans. That's a really good idea.
Mat Ryer
It's lovely.
Thomas Eckert
It sits different on the palate. And that's a little bit more -- I mean, you see, that goes back into questions of class in England, as to who had toast under beans and who had beans on the toast.
Mat Ryer
That's it. Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Which class are you in, Mat?
Mat Ryer
You know Downton Abbey? You know where all the servants live, downstairs?
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I'd be working for them.
Jerod Santo
Oh, you'd be working for the servants.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, in the UK, where I sit.
Jerod Santo
You're the scum the scrape off the scum.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, exactly. Scum of the scum. It's like crème de la crème, but the opposite. But I'm proud of it. Working class background, and all that, you know...
Jerod Santo
And you're a legend around these parts... So what does that make us, you know?
Mat Ryer
\[laughs\] I wouldn't like to hazard a guess...
Adam Stacoviak
Just people.
Mat Ryer
No, I like you lot. I'll just caveat it with - if any scandals break with these people, I'd like to distance myself now. But assuming that doesn't happen...
Adam Stacoviak
I have an ongoing scandal hidden very much in... Is it a scandal if its hidden?
Jerod Santo
No. Well...
Adam Stacoviak
It's actually a microscandal. It's between like three or four people... One of them has a newspaper that just distributes it to like three people, and that's it. And it's in there, headlined on the front page.
Mat Ryer
Oh, wow.
Adam Stacoviak
So two people know what I've done. Allegedly.
Mat Ryer
What area is it in? Is it like a crime?
Adam Stacoviak
It's in the zip code? It's like --
Mat Ryer
Yeah, geographically.
Adam Stacoviak
...on the street.
Mat Ryer
What lat-long? What's your lat-long of this incident? Narrow it down a bit.
Adam Stacoviak
I can't tell you. That's my information? I'm in the US of A, you know that... Down here in Texas!
Mat Ryer
\[laughs\] You can't do anything illegal in Texas, can you?
Adam Stacoviak
No, everything's --
Thomas Eckert
There's no laws.
Nick Nisi
Oh, it's all in the dossier...
Jerod Santo
If you do something illegal, don't they just take you Dan-Tan?
Adam Stacoviak
Dan-Ttan. Yeah, I'm taking you Dan-Tan.
Thomas Eckert
Gravy-Tan!
Jerod Santo
Oh...! Gravy-Tan! Alright, well, we have an unprecedented occurrence here... I've never been through this. I don't have it in my rulebook even, how to handle this circumstance. But of the definitions - I now have all four of your definitions. Three of them were the correct definition, and one person made one up. So I guess we could just -- \[laughter\] We could all go around and guess who might not know the definition. Or --
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, let's change the rules for this one answer.
Jerod Santo
Okay. So we will guess now who you think had to make up the definition and didn't actually know...
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, yes.
Jerod Santo
This might turn into some sort of a class war.
Mat Ryer
We could also still pick which exact definition is the official one. That's still a game, I guess.
Thomas Eckert
Well, yeah, can we get what the fake definition was before we try to place it on someone?
Adam Stacoviak
\[unintelligible 00:21:35.27\] fair play.
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Thomas Eckert
That's true.
Jerod Santo
Let's keep it fair. Let's keep it 100% fair. So Thomas goes first. Thomas, who do you think made up a definition in this round?
Thomas Eckert
Alright...
Mat Ryer
This game is taking \[unintelligible 00:21:51.18\]
Thomas Eckert
No, it doesn't. It's not fair to assume that the person didn't know what the actual answer was, but may have been playing that strategy, where --
Jerod Santo
Right, the metagame. Most likely they were, and it just backfired horrendously. Or not. Because if you guess their name, then they get a point for tricking you.
Thomas Eckert
\[00:22:10.27\] They get a point for tricking me... When I choose...
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
Because you think they lied, and --
Jerod Santo
\[unintelligible 00:22:14.23\] yourself, at which point the points cancel out.
Thomas Eckert
Unless it's myself...
Adam Stacoviak
Yes. You get about a 33% chance of getting it right. Well, I guess maybe a 66. What is the math on that one...?
Thomas Eckert
It depends on whether or not I'm the person who made it up.
Jerod Santo
Right. But the person whose name gets guessed gets a point. Don't think about it too hard... Flip a coin and pick a name.
Thomas Eckert
I'm thinking that I could see Mat making something up.
Jerod Santo
Alright, so Thomas picks Mat. Adam, your turn. Who do you think it was?
Adam Stacoviak
Who did what?
Jerod Santo
Who made a fake definition and submitted it to me.
Adam Stacoviak
I think you did. I think you began the game of fakeness.
Jerod Santo
I did not.
Adam Stacoviak
You did. I believe you did. This is the time that you would slip it in there. This is the one time, the only time.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] So you think that I'm trying to get a zero here?
Mat Ryer
So Adam, you think the official answer here is wrong?
Adam Stacoviak
I don't understand your logic, but you've done it, okay? I'm sticking to my guns. I'm picking Jerod.
Jerod Santo
Okay, so Adam thinks Jerod. Thomas said it was Mat. Adam thought it was me. Mat, who do you think it is?
Mat Ryer
Well, I think it's Adam Stacks. I think it's Adam.
Jerod Santo
You think Adam stacked the deck against you?
Mat Ryer
And I won't caveat it with all the politeness. You know what I think.
Jerod Santo
Alright, so one vote for Mat, Jerod and Adam... And now Nick - who do you think it was?
Nick Nisi
Wait, how do I get the points here?
Jerod Santo
You have to name the person that submitted a fake definition.
Thomas Eckert
The only way to win is to not play... \[laughter\]
Nick Nisi
No, I'm gonna win, because I'm gonna say it was me.
Jerod Santo
Oh...! It was Nick!
Thomas Eckert
There ya go...
Jerod Santo
And so Nick wins the round...
Mat Ryer
By getting it wrong.
Jerod Santo
...in some sort of crazy turn of events. He gets a point - or two points for getting it correct. Unfortunately, everybody else scored three points, because Mat, Adam and Thomas all got the correct definition. A hypothetical elementary particle that mediates the force of gravitation in the framework of quantum field theory. Nobody said it that nicely. That's the correct thing... But they all got pretty close, though. Nick submitted "A database as a service solution for enterprise infrastructure solutions." So a lot of solutions in that...
Thomas Eckert
Well, you've got Fermyon. They should have Graviton.
Nick Nisi
In my defense, I had a greater chance of saying it was a JavaScript framework and getting it right than you all did guessing me.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, that's true. \[laughs\]
Thomas Eckert
The hypothtical JavaScript framework.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
And I was trying to throw everybody off by choosing Jerod... I was like "Well, you know, nobody expects this..."
Mat Ryer
Yeah, that's why I went for you.
Jerod Santo
I was hoping that nobody would say Nick, and I would get three points for the miss, but... He named himself; he outed himself, and to much success, he got two points there.
Nick Nisi
I totally knew what it was... I was trying to trick all of you.
Jerod Santo
Oh, you're playing the meta game.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, he's playing the meta game.
Jerod Santo
Smart. It backfired horrendously, but you still scored two points. Everybody else scored three. So after round two, we have Mat, Adam and Thomas tied in first, with five. Nick in dead last with four. And I still have zero, but it doesn't count as dead last, because I'm just the moderator, people. I'm not actually playing the game.
Nick Nisi
Wait, wait, wait... A question. Is the point of the game to try and trick everyone else, but then know the right answer and guess it?
Jerod Santo
Absolutely.
Nick Nisi
Or is it to guess it first?
Mat Ryer
How can you do both of those?
Thomas Eckert
That can be the best if you can get a fake definition that is so good that everyone else --
Adam Stacoviak
That's what you're trying to do.
Jerod Santo
You have to get the ultimate pile-on, and then not pile on yourself. That's how you get the most points.
Nick Nisi
A JavaScript framework. Just say that for the rest of them, and...
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Thomas Eckert
They all \[unintelligible 00:25:33.03\] JavaScript frameworks.
Jerod Santo
Well, you'll have a good opportunity now. We move to round three. This is a different round. We call this round "Namespace conflict." And this one, I've gone out to the GitHub, and I have found an open source project. I will give you all the name of the open source project. Your job is to write the tagline or the description of said open source project.
Mat Ryer
That's great.
Adam Stacoviak
And the title of this project is "Nuclei." Please submit to me your fake taglines now.
Thomas Eckert
\[00:26:10.06\] And this is not nucleus, from --
Adam Stacoviak
Don't say it... Don't say it...
Thomas Eckert
Silicon Valley. \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
I would never -- I would absolutely never. Now, if one of you happens to know what Nuclei is, then you just tell me that and you'll still get those three points. Thomas first to submit... I have Mat's. So far, nobody has known it.
Adam Stacoviak
I'm not sure that's a good thing to say, Jerod...
Jerod Santo
Let's see if Nick can get in before Adam does, and retain Adam's streak of last submitter.
Thomas Eckert
Last off the field.
Jerod Santo
And I have Nick's.
Adam Stacoviak
Ah. So close. I added one comma, and a space, and then two more dots, and a plus sign.
Jerod Santo
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Adam Stacoviak
I added a last-minute edit to be more clear. So if you see or hear him delay or add a plus in the definitions, that's just me, to be clear.
Jerod Santo
Okay. I now have all four definitions, or descriptions I should say, for the very real open source project on GitHub called Nuclei. But what is Nuclei? Number one, it's believed to be the real world version of nucleus, the copied middle out compression framework from HBO's Silicon Valley.
Thomas Eckert
\[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
How dare you. Number two, a fast and customizable vulnerability scanner based on simple YAML-based DSL. Number three, an abstraction atop all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything from one place. Number four, a blazingly fast JavaScript framework written in Rust, with AI superpowers. And number five, "Nuclei: Get to the center of your issues."
Thomas Eckert
Emotionally...?
Jerod Santo
There you have five potential descriptions of a very real open source project called Nuclei... But which is the real one? We start now with Adam.
Adam Stacoviak
Can you repeat a few for me, please?
Jerod Santo
A few of them, just at random?
Mat Ryer
Use the lava lamp to pick which one, Adam.
Jerod Santo
He doesn't care which ones he hears back. He just wants to hear a few. Were you listening the first time?
Adam Stacoviak
I'd love to hear two and three, please. Two and three.
Jerod Santo
Two and three, okay. Two is a fast and customizable vulnerability scanner based on simple YAML-based DSL.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay. I meant three and four, sorry.
Jerod Santo
Three is an abstraction on top all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything from one place. And four is a blazingly fast JS framework written in Rust, with AI superpowers.
Adam Stacoviak
What was number one again?
Jerod Santo
HBO's Silicon Valley...
Adam Stacoviak
What about number five? I'm just kidding. I'll take number three, please.
Jerod Santo
Alright, number three is the abstraction.
Adam Stacoviak
Abstraction. Read that one again, one more time?
Jerod Santo
An abstraction atop all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything in one place.
Adam Stacoviak
That's the one.
Jerod Santo
That's the one?
Adam Stacoviak
Right.
Jerod Santo
Alright. That's Adam's. We go now to Mat.
Mat Ryer
Hmm... Can you read number five again? I'm not trolling. I think that's the one I'm gonna --
Jerod Santo
You're not trolling?
Mat Ryer
No.
Jerod Santo
Number five, it says "Get to the center of your issues."
Adam Stacoviak
Is it 'git' though?
Jerod Santo
Not it's 'get'.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. I mean, that's good. That's a good -- it could be also quite a good fake. This would be a good fake that one of these young lads would come up with, I reckon, to throw me off a scent.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. It's hard to say.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. And number two again, just one more time, Jerod?
Jerod Santo
Number two was the fast and customizable vulnerability scanner based on a simple YAML DSL.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. It was the addition of the YAML DSL... Like, that's a brag... That's somehow --
Jerod Santo
It's a brag? They're trying too hard?
Mat Ryer
I'm gonna go number five, I think. And I deserve to lose points to someone if they've --
Jerod Santo
Alright, Mat votes for number five, "Get to the center of your issues." Nick, what do you think?
Nick Nisi
I think -- what was number one again? \[laughter\]
Thomas Eckert
You know, you can write things down...
Jerod Santo
I refuse to read number one again. You know what it is, and you're just trolling me.
Nick Nisi
\[00:30:13.18\] Your favorite show, right?
Jerod Santo
Absolutely.
Nick Nisi
I'm sorry, but can you -- I think I have number two... Can you repeat number three, please?
Jerod Santo
An abstraction atop all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything from one place. Adam selected that one, in case you want to have Mat singing the pile-on song again...
Nick Nisi
So he selected three, and five...
Jerod Santo
Mat's on five, Adam's on three...
Adam Stacoviak
It's number on, Nick...
Thomas Eckert
Who's on third...?
Nick Nisi
I'll take two.
Jerod Santo
Two. You're taking the vulnerability scanner, correct?
Nick Nisi
Yes.
Jerod Santo
Okay. Nick has that one. We go now to Thomas.
Thomas Eckert
Alright. Can you read...
Jerod Santo
Yes, I can.
Thomas Eckert
Oh, that's wonderful.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Thomas Eckert
Alright. As I've heard this, I'm thinking, "Get to the center of your issues." It's nice, it's clean... It could be fake, but... It also leaves a lot of interpretation as to what the project could actually do. Getting to the center of your issues - it could be a therapy program, it could be a lot.
Jerod Santo
True.
Thomas Eckert
So I'm thinking I'll go with that one. Center of your issues. We'll pile onto that one a little bit.
Jerod Santo
Alright. A little bit of a pile-on. We've only got two on there, Thomas and Mat. So let's start right there. Both Mat and Thomas thought that a Nuclei might be "Get to the center of your issues." A pretty good tagline, written by one Nick Nisi. So that is Nick's.
Mat Ryer
So good.
Thomas Eckert
Very good, Nick.
Mat Ryer
Because it's Nucle-i. Because you're saying "i" as well, so it's like looking out...
Jerod Santo
I thought it was great. Yeah. Very good one.
Mat Ryer
So good. It deserves -- how many points does it get?
Jerod Santo
So Nick scores two points for tricking two of you...
Adam Stacoviak
Good job, Nick.
Jerod Santo
Adam, however, thought that a nuclei was the abstraction atop of all popular frontend testing technologies. That was written by Mat. So Mat gets a point there.
Mat Ryer
Nice one.
Jerod Santo
And Nick thought it was a customizable vulnerability scanner based on a simple YAML-based DSL. And that is exactly what Nuclei is.
Thomas Eckert
Really? Alright.
Jerod Santo
So Nick got it right. He gets two more points for the correct answer, and really takes a big lead after around three.
Adam Stacoviak
Dang.
Nick Nisi
I was really queuing in on that YAML keyword, too. That's really specific, or it's trying to trick me.
Adam Stacoviak
And I obviously wrote about the copy \[unintelligible 00:32:30.22\]
Jerod Santo
And we all know who wrote the Silicon Valley one.
Adam Stacoviak
My problem though was that I worded that incorrectly. It was not like a description. It was not believable.
Jerod Santo
Right.
Thomas Eckert
I think it was too long for the GitHub tagline area, too.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, that's the problem. As I read that back, I'm like, my strategy for what I wrote was wrong.
Jerod Santo
The other problem is it had Silicon Valley in it, so... Yeah. You basically traded points for a few lols.
Adam Stacoviak
If I could have just said like "Fan art based on Silicon Valley" that would have been good, right? Just like simple.
Jerod Santo
Okay, that might have been believable.
Adam Stacoviak
That might have actually gotten you guys, you know?
Mat Ryer
We're gonna get better at this, aren't we, as we go?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. Well, that's the strategy... It's like believability, and STEM. Because sometimes there's definitions out there that are like not STEM.
Jerod Santo
That's true. After three rounds, Nick moves from dead last to dead first. He has seven points. Mat is in second place with six, and Thomas and Adam are tied with five AP. So it's a tight game. We move now to round four, where the word is ductility. Please submit your definitions now.
Mat Ryer
Adam, can I have a random number from your lava lamp, please?
Adam Stacoviak
Got it.
Mat Ryer
Thank you. Yup. I'll just write it down. Number six.
Jerod Santo
Mat is in. Thomas is in.
Thomas Eckert
We've got the same exact thing.
Mat Ryer
Could have...
Jerod Santo
You did in the graviton round...
Mat Ryer
\[00:33:57.07\] Thomas, you keep having to go with beans on toast. What's the sort of local food from where you are that's popular?
Thomas Eckert
You know, where I am - I'm just outside of DC. And so there's such a --
Mat Ryer
The comics? The comicbooks?
Thomas Eckert
Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no... And of course, the other coast do have Marvel...
Mat Ryer
The two big rivals, aren't they?
Thomas Eckert
The two big rivals. I would say that DC --
Mat Ryer
Is that where Batman lives?
Thomas Eckert
That is where Batman lives, and --
Jerod Santo
A lot of kryptonite...
Thomas Eckert
...he does take care of a lot of... Well, there's a lot of kryptonite, and that is the main kind of industry in the area, is kryptonite mining. So very, you know...
Jerod Santo
But not exactly a cuisine. I mean, we're not talking --
Thomas Eckert
No, no, no, no. We're getting there. I mean, some people love large vats of acid. Some people find it transformative. Some people find it drives them crazy. You know, there's not a real central DC cuisine I can think of, but I will say, I spent a long time in Rochester, New York. It's where I went to grad school. And they have something called a garbage plate.
Mat Ryer
Ooh, that sounds delicious.
Thomas Eckert
Do you know what a garbage plate is?
Mat Ryer
No, but it sounds yummy.
Jerod Santo
I could take a few guesses...
Thomas Eckert
Yeah. Well, it's kind of a loose idea about food... It is a plate that includes hamburger, you've got some hotdog on there, chopped up usually, some macaroni salad, sometimes beans... Really just anything that you might --
Jerod Santo
Is there any toast?
Thomas Eckert
You know what, with a little bit of ingenuity, you could add some toast to that.
Mat Ryer
So if you worked hard, you could turn garbage into beans on toast, is what we're saying here.
Thomas Eckert
Exactly. There is a possible transmutation from garbage to beans on toast. Yes. And so that's where a lot of my perspective comes from.
Mat Ryer
Is it garbage plate like leftovers, and it's just a mix of everything...?
Thomas Eckert
It's kind of like everything that you could get at a diner, or a barbecue joint... Well, not like a Southern barbecue joint, but like, you know...
Mat Ryer
A Northern one.
Thomas Eckert
Maybe at a family barbecue, yeah.
Jerod Santo
I just thought it was the result of a successful night of dumpster diving. But...
Thomas Eckert
It can be. Depending on your palate, and how good you are at digesting food...
Jerod Santo
Right. Alright, we have all four definitions - five, including the real one - for ductility. Number one, the act of throwing something or someone out of a window. Number two, helpful objects formed with duct tape. Number three, a measure of how solvable a problem is using duct tape. Covering a small hole has high ductility. Number four, a fast, utility-first duck-typing library. And number five, a temporary tool to quickly fix an issue, contraction of duct tape and utility. So there's your five definitions. We start with Mat this round. What do you think is the right definition?
Mat Ryer
That last one sounds properly like real... But is that a double bluff? Or just a normal bluff? I could be just a one bluff.
Thomas Eckert
It could be a triple bluff.
Mat Ryer
Could it?
Jerod Santo
Actually, a double bluff would be worth choosing.
Mat Ryer
If it's even, does it go back to -- which one... If it's odd, it goes back to what it was... I can't remember.
Jerod Santo
I think you know the answer to this.
Mat Ryer
What's like a 15th bluff?
Thomas Eckert
It just goes odd/even, yeah.
Mat Ryer
Okay. I think the one about measuring how easy you could fix something with duct tape, measuring the severity of a problem. I like that. But... Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Okay. That's number three, a measure of how solvable a problem is using duct tape. That would be the ductility.
Mat Ryer
It's either that or the last one, I would say. So I will go for three.
Jerod Santo
Alright, he's going for three. Nick.
Nick Nisi
Three was my guest, too. But to be different, I'm gonna go with five.
Jerod Santo
Do you know what number five is, Nick, or are you just following the leader?
Nick Nisi
That was the one about ductyping, right?
Jerod Santo
No, that was four.
Nick Nisi
Can you repeat number five? \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
I thought you might have moved a little quick on that... Number five was a temporary tool to quickly fix an issue. A contraction of duct tape and utility. Ductility.
Nick Nisi
Oh. Okay. I'm gonna stick with five.
Jerod Santo
Oh, you're gonna stick with that one?
Nick Nisi
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh. It's like, something was in there, that like --
Jerod Santo
Alright, that's Nick's. He's got five. And Thomas.
Thomas Eckert
\[00:38:17.09\] Yes, I will pile on with Nick... Even though he didn't know which one he was picking. Now he does, and I agree with him. That temporary tool - that sounds right.
Jerod Santo
Okay.
Nick Nisi
You're being very ductile there, Thomas.
Thomas Eckert
Yes.
Jerod Santo
Last up, Adam. What are you thinking? We have a pile-on beginning, and we also have Mat over there on the solvable problem using duct tape --
Mat Ryer
Not feeling good over here on this little island, I'll tell you that...
Thomas Eckert
Not feeling good...
Adam Stacoviak
I'm gonna give you a chance here, Jerod, to get some points.
Jerod Santo
You're gonna pile?
Adam Stacoviak
We're gonna split it. I'm gonna go with Mat.
Jerod Santo
You're gonna go with Mat.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. I think it's a measure.
Jerod Santo
Okay, he thinks it's a measure.
Adam Stacoviak
Ductility is definitely a measure.
Jerod Santo
Alright... So we don't need the pile-on song.
Mat Ryer
It's hard to remember the definitions and stuff, because I think Jerod reads them, and we're not listening... That's what \[unintelligible 00:39:08.27\]
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] I get that feeling, too... Because as soon as I read them, someone's like "Will you read those again?" It's like, "Where were you when I read them?" I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question... Because you're all right here in my screens, but... Okay, let's see how it shakes out. Dogpile number one was Nick and Thomas. They thought ductility was a temporary tool to quickly fix an issue. A contraction of duct tape and utility - I thought that was pretty clever... And Mat is pretty clever, because that was his definition.
Mat Ryer
Cheeky...!
Jerod Santo
Two points for Mat.
Thomas Eckert
Cheeky.
Mat Ryer
That's the sound effect they play when that happens. He does it in English, like "Cheeky...!" It's like, English... \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
We've got a clip right there.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. That's it.
Jerod Santo
Alright. Dogpile number two was Mat and Adam. They thought ductility was a measure of how solvable a problem is using duct tape. That was Thomas'es measure. He made that one up. Two points for Thomas.
Mat Ryer
Great one.
Adam Stacoviak
Good job, Thomas.
Thomas Eckert
Thank you.
Adam Stacoviak
I didn't want to go with it, because I kind of figured it probably wasn't true... But I figured, "Whoever did it earned the points." Earned the points, you know?
Jerod Santo
He earned them. And guess who else earned a few points this round?
Mat Ryer
Jerod...!
Jerod Santo
Yours truly, because ductility is the act of throwing something or someone out of a window.
Mat Ryer
What...?!
Thomas Eckert
I thought that that was defenestration.
Jerod Santo
Oh, shoot... I switched the words. I'm serious. I switched the words. \[laughs\] It is defenestration.
Thomas Eckert
\[laughs\] Because you didn't read the right definition for ductility...
Jerod Santo
No, I didn't.
Thomas Eckert
Do you want to --
Jerod Santo
Yeah, I know what ductility is. Oh...!
Adam Stacoviak
I'll tell you what ductility is... Ductility is helpful objects formed from duct tape. That's what ductility is...
Thomas Eckert
Ductility is a metal is ductile if you can hit it with a hammer and deform it.
Jerod Santo
Right... I screwed it up big time. I actually didn't switch them. What I did was I took defenestration and I pasted its definition on top of ductility's.
Mat Ryer
Do not feel bad. Don't throw yourself out the window. \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
This is unfixable. I don't think I get any points this round.
Adam Stacoviak
No points awarded.
Jerod Santo
That's how we'll fix it. I'll go zero, and we'll leave everything else alone. Wooh! So what was the correct definition again?
Thomas Eckert
If a metal can be deformed by hitting it with a hammer, and it stays in that deformation. So like a wire has high ductility, because you can kind of stretch it out...
Jerod Santo
Right. The ability of a material to sustain significant plastic deformation before fracture. That's what it was.
Thomas Eckert
Yes.
Jerod Santo
Yeah... I pasted the wrong thing. I was really excited, because defenestration was such a cool word.
Thomas Eckert
It is a good word.
Jerod Santo
\[00:41:59.03\] And I have a round called "Not STEM", because that's not STEM. Throwing something out a window is not STEM...
Thomas Eckert
No, that's physics. That's physics.
Mat Ryer
I've worked in some places, I can tell you...
Jerod Santo
Well, maybe. Yeah. I was trying to think of the ways I would argue that being STEM, because I read the definition and I'm like "That's not really stem." That's just throwing people out windows.
Nick Nisi
Thomas, why did you know that so fast?
Jerod Santo
Defenestration, yeah. You knew that really well.
Thomas Eckert
Why did I know that word? Just random facts knowledge, but... \[laughter\] But background context here...
Jerod Santo
Is required.
Thomas Eckert
Well, I have my master's degree in physics. Did you know that? Okay, so there's a couple of things, like graviton, that -- those ones were...
Jerod Santo
They're hitting into your wheelhouse.
Thomas Eckert
They're hitting into my wheelhouse.
Jerod Santo
And throwing people out of windows was one of your hobbies in college, then?
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, exactly. That's actually how they dealt with us if we didn't do well on our papers.
Jerod Santo
Okay. They defenestrated you.
Thomas Eckert
They defenestrated me, yeah.
Jerod Santo
The worst part about this is I ruined two rounds, because I can't use that one anymore either.
Thomas Eckert
Well, actually, I ruined that by calling you out on --
Jerod Santo
No, you were correct. I ruined it by having the wrong definition for ductility.
Mat Ryer
You both ruined it. Don't fall out over this. \[laughter\]
Thomas Eckert
We've ruined it together.
Mat Ryer
So what's the word again? Defenestration?
Jerod Santo
Defenestration is the act of throwing something or someone out of a window.
Mat Ryer
So is fenestration -- would fenestration be throwing them into a window? Like throwing them up and in?
Jerod Santo
Thomas? Explain the physics of that one.
Thomas Eckert
That's what they do for firefighting. If they need to get you onto the second floor, and they don't have a ladder, they've got somebody really big, and they go --
Jerod Santo
They fenestrate you.
Mat Ryer
That's why they have the trampolines at the bottom? Is that just so they can bounce up and see what's going on?
Thomas Eckert
That's just for fun, actually. It's a very stressful job. So you know how at Google they have ping pong tables... That's why they bring the trampolines.
Mat Ryer
Oh. It's just like "Go and have five minutes. Billy, you've worked hard. Go and have five minutes on the trampoline. We'll deal with the rest of this fire."
Thomas Eckert
Exactly. Yes.
Jerod Santo
Well, after a crazy round four, I have subtracted those three points that I gave myself, and I'm back at zero... But we let Thomas's two and Mat's two stand, because they did convince Mat -- or they convinced the other people to select theirs, and so that puts them into a tie for second, Thomas, and a leader now, Mat leapfrogging over Nick and Thomas at seven, with eight. So it's Mat eight, Nick and Thomas tied with seven, and Adam with five. I am down here in the basement, where I belong... And we move now to round five.
**Break**: \[00:44:32.24\]
And we move now to round five... This is our new round.
Mat Ryer
Oh, no...
Jerod Santo
Well, this is a different round, called "Give it a goog."
Mat Ryer
Give it a what? \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
Give it a goog!
Thomas Eckert
Jerod, Mat's cracking up. Do you know what goog means in British English? It's a little bit inappropriate. Mat, do you want to say it?
Mat Ryer
That's the round. Everyone has to guess. What does it mean in British?
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] That might give you an advantage, Mat. An unfair advantage.
Mat Ryer
Jerod, he's got a master's degree in physics. How's that not giving him an unfair advantage? Education is just cheating, guys.
Jerod Santo
That's fair.
Thomas Eckert
Education is cheating. It's the most expensive form of cheating.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, sometimes too expensive to climb out from under... Hopefully, you're putting that to good work. Aren't you a software engineer? Are you also a physician?
Thomas Eckert
A physician? That's a different degree. \[laughter\] I can't do that.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, that's his next one.
Adam Stacoviak
Are you a physician...?
Jerod Santo
I thought you said you had your degree in physicians...
Thomas Eckert
Physicians? \[laughs\[
Jerod Santo
Okay, for this round, called "Give it a goog", which is goog, of course, the ticker symbol for Google, and not some sort of British euphemism, I hope...
Thomas Eckert
We'll have to bleep it for the British audiences, but yeah.
Jerod Santo
...is a round in which I began to ask Google a question, or type a phrase into Google, and then I paused and let it autocomplete.
Mat Ryer
Ah...!
Jerod Santo
Your job is to write said autocomplete. So what was the number one suggested autocomplete for the given phrase, in Google? And that phrase was "Why doesn't Apple..." "Why doesn't Apple", and I stopped. And Google suggested a bunch of things. One of those things is the number one thing. And you now write what you think that is.
Mat Ryer
Did you do this in...
Jerod Santo
Incognito mode?
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Because otherwise it's going to be specific to you, and it'd be something about, I don't know, sports, or...
Jerod Santo
Right. And I wouldn't want to share those skeletons in my closet... Alright, so there it is. "Why doesn't Apple...", finish that phrase. What do you think Google would autocomplete? I have Mat's... I was in San Francisco once, in this bar, and I met an Apple engineer. And this was just when the M1 chips came out. And we were kind of chatting... And I said to him -- he said "Oh, I'm working on something top secret, Mat." And I was like "Oh, what is it? The M2?" and he just went like pale and quiet... So I had guessed the M2, as a joke, from the M1.
Did you work for Gizmodo at the time?
Mat Ryer
Oh, no. And no one will hire me in the press... \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
Ifl you really wanted to make money, you should have stole off with his prereleased iPhone.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, that would have been good, actually... Although -- I'm not a thief, really... But I could have won it in a bet.
Jerod Santo
Well, not in that case... You know, after he turned into a ghost. I mean...
Mat Ryer
He went all serious. He's like "I can't talk about it." I'd guessed it, hadn't I...? But it was such an obvious guess. Why would that be covered by NDA...? I don't know...
Jerod Santo
Because they can't tell you that they're going to increment the number.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Top secret.
Jerod Santo
Had you had said M3, he could have just laughed and said "Of course not."
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Or M1 part 2. M1 Pro Max, actually, to be fair. They do have the ultra --
Thomas Eckert
Those names don't make any sense.
Jerod Santo
I have Thomas'es, and Nick's, and Adam's. I'm not sure who came in first there, but we know who came in last...
Mat Ryer
I don't want Adam to feel picked on because he's being slow.
Jerod Santo
Of course not.
Mat Ryer
You guys took ages to agree with me then...
Thomas Eckert
It's because they had to cross the ocean to get here.
Mat Ryer
Right.
Jerod Santo
Sorry, I'm in the middle of very complicated copy-paste. You know what can go wrong when I copy-paste wrong. I change the meaning of words.
Adam Stacoviak
Don't do that.
Jerod Santo
Alright. Give it a goog. "Why doesn't Apple..." Five potential responses. The first one, "Why doesn't Apple Pay work?" The second one, "Why doesn't Apple taste good like banana?" \[laughter\] The third one, "Why doesn't Apple make cheaper products?" Number four, "Why doesn't Apple let me change the default browser for iPhone?" Number five, "Why doesn't Apple let iPads run MacOS?" There you have, the five potential autocompletes for the phrase "Why doesn't Apple..." We start this round with Nick.
Nick Nisi
\[00:54:19.11\] Not with me... Can you repeat the first two, please?
Jerod Santo
Number one was "Why doesn't Apple Pay work?" Number two was "Why doesn't Apple tastes good like banana?" \[laughter\]
Apparently, submitted by \[unintelligible 00:54:35.08\]
Nick Nisi
Apple does support other browsers, sort of, and in the EU...
Thomas Eckert
But that was a recent -- yeah...
Jerod Santo
The default browser?
Thomas Eckert
The default browser, I don't think so.
Nick Nisi
You can change the default browser, but the default browser is always Safari everywhere, except for the EU now.
Thomas Eckert
Sure.
Jerod Santo
You mean the rendering engine versus the actual like app.
Nick Nisi
Yeah.
Thomas Eckert
But would people know that?
Nick Nisi
But you've been able to change the default browser forever. So...
Adam Stacoviak
These are non-nerd searches, Nick...
Jerod Santo
Yeah, I mean, these are the masses here...
Nick Nisi
Okay. So then it is either one or two. I'll go with one... Because apples are better than bananas.
Jerod Santo
Alright, number one. Nick takes number one. We go now to Thomas.
Thomas Eckert
I'm thinking though "Why doesn't Apple Pay work?", because that seems like what the masses might be thinking...
Nick Nisi
We could be mis-stereotyping very badly... \[laughter\]
Thomas Eckert
Well, okay...
Jerod Santo
In my experience, Apple Pay has worked pretty well.
Thomas Eckert
It works pretty well, but...
Adam Stacoviak
Same.
Nick Nisi
I don't carry anything else.
Jerod Santo
Anything else?
Nick Nisi
No.
Jerod Santo
Wow.
Adam Stacoviak
No wallet?
Nick Nisi
No wallet.
Jerod Santo
Where's your ID?
Nick Nisi
It's in the car...
Jerod Santo
Okay. So if you want to steal Nick's identity, just steal his car.
Thomas Eckert
Steal his car, get his identity...
Adam Stacoviak
I'm hopping in your car when you get out, buddy...
Jerod Santo
Alright... Well, that's pretty good \[unintelligible 00:55:56.25\]
Mat Ryer
Which car is his, though? Which cars is his?
Jerod Santo
The one with his ID in it, Mat. Come on. Keep up.
Nick Nisi
My car is not identifiable.
Thomas Eckert
What's your VIN number? Yeah...
Nick Nisi
My license plate si VIM.
Thomas Eckert
VIM?
Jerod Santo
It literally is.
Thomas Eckert
That's so good.
Jerod Santo
Now he's just doxxed himself hardcore.
Adam Stacoviak
Come on, Nick... Edit that out.
Mat Ryer
That's funny, because my --
Adam Stacoviak
It's MIV...
Nick Nisi
Is that why you're so slow?
Jerod Santo
"Is that why you're so slow?" \[laughs\] Rimshot...
Mat Ryer
I've never got a speeding ticket, let's put it that way.
Adam Stacoviak
Quite bloated.
Jerod Santo
Thomas, we're still waiting for you to decide.
Thomas Eckert
Still waiting... I'm gonna pile on with Nick on the "Why doesn't Apple Pay work?"
Jerod Santo
Alright. We're gonna get the pile-on song out... Alright. We go to Adam.
Adam Stacoviak
It's a pile-on... The other ones are too wordy, you know?
Jerod Santo
Which ones?
Adam Stacoviak
They're all too wordy.
Jerod Santo
"Why doesn't Apple let iPads run macOS?"
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. That's like --
Jerod Santo
It's four words.
Adam Stacoviak
It's like 17 down in the autocomplete. Not the first one. It's an autocomplete, for sure, but not the first one. Overly explanatory is not good, in this case.
Jerod Santo
Okay. So you're going with the shortest one?
Adam Stacoviak
They just added one word, "work". Well, pay and work, I suppose. Two words. Count them. One, two.
Jerod Santo
So you're piling on.
Adam Stacoviak
Pile on. Yeah. Number one.
Jerod Santo
Alright.
Adam Stacoviak
I just shared my logic with you, Mat, so I'm giving you a leg up.
Jerod Santo
Mat, what are you thinking? We have a pile-on here...
Adam Stacoviak
There's another one though that you could probably guess, just saying...
Thomas Eckert
Tastes good like banana...
Mat Ryer
Well, that's that one's funny, but I think people -- there's no reason why... In an incognito mode, there's no reason why it would assume Apple the company, maybe...
Thomas Eckert
Oh, no, of course.
Mat Ryer
And it could easily be a funny one... Why doesn't apple taste good like banana? I like that one.
Adam Stacoviak
Banana. It's not banana, it's banana.
Mat Ryer
Oh yeah, sorry.
Thomas Eckert
Banana. That's how they say it. And there's a u in there somewhere.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Do you think the world's population prefers banana to apple?
Mat Ryer
\[00:58:04.20\] Yeah, I'm the one --
Adam Stacoviak
\[unintelligible 00:58:04.17\] just say banana by itself, it's like no, that's not real, is it?
Mat Ryer
I'm the one talking funny.
Adam Stacoviak
Do you really say that, Mat? Do you say banaana?
Mat Ryer
Banaana.
Adam Stacoviak
Banaana.
Jerod Santo
It sounds like banaana-nana-nana...
Adam Stacoviak
I'm sorry about that, Mat... I feel bad for you.
Mat Ryer
You save loads of time, to be fair. At the end of your day, you've shaved -- if you add it up over your lifetime, you've probably saved significant...
Jerod Santo
I mean, ours sounds so much better. Banana. I mean, that's just better. Banana.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, it doesn't hurt my ears.
Adam Stacoviak
B-A-NA-NA... Whatever.
Jerod Santo
Let's hear a selection, Mat, before we --
Mat Ryer
I think it's a pile-on.
Jerod Santo
You think it's a pile-on? Alright. Should we play the pile-on song?
Adam Stacoviak
Gosh.. How about version two? A remix.
Jerod Santo
Let's hear it. Yeah, make it different.
\[00:58:49.17\]
*Have you ever seen a baby... That looked like an old man...? Have you ever seen a lady, that also looked like an old man? Well, I don't know what that's about, but we're gonna pile on... And that's why we sing the pile-on song...*
Mat Ryer
It wasn't as relevant as the first one, was it?
Adam Stacoviak
You should have put banana in there, buddy...
Jerod Santo
I don't know what that was about, honestly... I feel like he just remixed an old song for us... But we'll take it. It's
better that --
Mat Ryer
You think that was written? \[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Good point. Yeah... I was about to say it's better than toast underneath some beans. Alright.
Adam Stacoviak
There's at least one more definition that was plausible, okay? It's all I'm saying. One more definition was plausible.
Jerod Santo
So all four of you thought the number one autocomplete for "Why doesn't Apple..." is "Pay work." "Why doesn't Apple Pay work?", and that is the number one autocomplete for "Why doesn't Apple...", so two points for everybody.
Thomas Eckert
We blocked them out.
Jerod Santo
A.k.a. a worthless round. Good job, guys. Way to ruin it. Interestingly - I thought this was interesting... The number two response was "Why doesn't Apple pencil work on my iPhone?" And the number three response was "Why doesn't Apple CarPlay work?" And the number four autocomplete was "Why doesn't Apple TV work?" Are you sensing a theme?
Mat Ryer
But it makes sense. That's what people are searching for. You don't search for "Why is my iPhone working?" No one's searching for that, are they?
Thomas Eckert
That might be the better question. "Why is the iPhone working?"
Mat Ryer
That's true. It's mind-blowing when you dig into it...
Thomas Eckert
There are books on that.
Mat Ryer
You need a physics masters to understand it, probably...
Adam Stacoviak
That's right.
Thomas Eckert
You don't... This is gonna be my mark, for my life... \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
Thomas Eckert, the physician.
Mat Ryer
It should say that, to be fair...
Thomas Eckert
"Is there a doctor on this plane...?" I can only throw people out the window... \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
I don't fly planes, I fly helicopteurs... \[laughter\] After round five, we gave it a goog and Mat retains his lead with 10 points, Nick and Thomas with 9, and Adam with 7. We skip round six, because of reasons we will not revisit... And we move to round seven. Klein bottle.
Nick Nisi
Wait, it wasn't even the next one down? You skipped to like four answers down, and then copied the definition?
Jerod Santo
Excuse me?
Thomas Eckert
They both started with D...
Nick Nisi
I'm just trying to understand...
Jerod Santo
No, here's what happened... Do you guys want the full explanation? Because this is how software works. I switched the tabs, round six and round four, because I thought it'd be a better flow. And then I had the wrong thing for four, and so six had the same thing as four. Yeah, so that's why those two were involved. So thanks for revisiting that, even though I clearly declared we're not going to revisit it...
**Break**: \[01:01:45.23\]
Round seven, klein bottle. That's two words. Klein is the first word, and bottle is the second word. So klein bottle. Spell it out like that. Klein bottle. Excuse me, I'm off to go check the definition to make sure it's correct, so as to not embarrass somebody a second time. Nick, first one in... We should have had you do a song about "Apple tastes good like banana." \[unintelligible 01:07:45.17\]
Adam Stacoviak
Not too late.
Jerod Santo
That sounds like a nursery rhyme.
Thomas Eckert
Was that Mat's?
Jerod Santo
Yeah, that was Mat's.
Nick Nisi
It could have been a hit, like the "Pen, pineapple, apple pen..."
Thomas Eckert
Oh, yeah.
Mat Ryer
It would have been better if someone had gone for it, though...
Thomas Eckert
Yeah... It's okay.
Jerod Santo
Waiting on Adam.
Adam Stacoviak
Sorry about that.
Jerod Santo
It's okay, I'm just letting everybody know...
Adam Stacoviak
Par for the course here. Just perfecting my words here.
Nick Nisi
Can I change mine?
Jerod Santo
Sure.
Adam Stacoviak
You can, before the round begins... Not during. Sorry, Jerod. I'm doing your job.
Jerod Santo
No, it's all good.
Adam Stacoviak
I didn't swap the tabs though, so you're okay. How about all of them tabs that guy had? 7,400 tabs?
Jerod Santo
7,400, yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Come on, now...
Jerod Santo
Can you believe that?
Adam Stacoviak
I felt vindicated. I was lik "Yes...!"
Nick Nisi
I don't know what you're talking about.
Adam Stacoviak
I was listening to that news in my truck, just pumping my fist, and people were like "What's wrong with that guy?" \[laughter\] Somebody else trumped me on tabs...
Jerod Santo
Yeah, Nick, there was somebody who had 7,400 tabs open over the course of two plus years. And they were quite upset when Firefox suddenly lost their session. I have all five definitions, and we'll see which one is correct for klein bottle. Number one, a storage solution for Calvin's fetted wares. \[laughter\] Is it fetted or feeded?
Thomas Eckert
Fetted... \[laughs\] That's too funny.
Jerod Santo
I've never even seen that word. Number two, a non-orientable surface with no distinct inside or outside. Number three, a mathematical construct with finite volume and infinite surface area. A klein bottle can be filled with paint, but never painted. Never fully painted, excuse me. Number four, bottle cap tester tool for fitness and watertightness created by Klein Tools. Number five, an algorithm for aggregating time-series data originally described by Robert C. Klein. There we go... I'm gonna go to Adam first. Surely, you're gonna ask me to read them all again, and then we'll see what you have to say.
Adam Stacoviak
\[01:09:57.02\] Just a few of them, don't worry.
Jerod Santo
Okay, which ones you'd like to hear again?
Adam Stacoviak
One threw five, please. \[laughter\] No, I'm kidding around. I just need two and three. Two and three. I was just kidding with you.
Jerod Santo
Two and three. So two is a non-orientable surface with no distinct inside or outside. Number three is a mathematical construct with finite volume and infinite surface area, which could be filled with paint but never fully painted.
Adam Stacoviak
I like Thomas's reactions to two and three. I'm gonna go with two.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Okay. Interesting.
Adam Stacoviak
I was playing you, Thomas. Thank you so much.
Jerod Santo
"I was playing you, Thomas." \[laughs\]
Thomas Eckert
I got played. \[unintelligible 01:10:28.09\]
Jerod Santo
You got totally played. Alright, well, let's see how Nick plays. Your turn, Nick. Oh, sorry, Mat. Mat, your turn.
Nick Nisi
Okay, I think I'm gonna go for number three. I like the idea that there's a thing that you can fill with paint. I've always wanted something that you can fill with paint, but can never paint it. So yeah, it's gonna be that one for me. And it's mathematical, so... Maths is \[unintelligible 01:10:53.16\]
Jerod Santo
Yeah, it's mathematics. Very good. Now we go to Nick.
Adam Stacoviak
Now I feel bad. I should have gone with three.
Nick Nisi
I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna go with three. And I think --
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, no! Don't go with three...! \[laughter\] Come on...!
Jerod Santo
They're piling on three.
Adam Stacoviak
This isn't a pile-on game...
Jerod Santo
Why do you think it is?
Nick Nisi
It was between two and three, because I think you read them in the order that we -- it's actually in an order that you are on my screen.
Mat Ryer
That's an insane reason.
Adam Stacoviak
That's his logic.
Jerod Santo
That's a meta game, isn't it? You think I'm just reading them in the screen order...
Nick Nisi
I knew that mine was number one...
Jerod Santo
Okay...
Mat Ryer
That's a mad reason. You might as well consult --
Jerod Santo
This guy is really playing the meta game.
Mat Ryer
I'm the last one. I'm the last one.
Thomas Eckert
No, you're not.
Jerod Santo
No, Thomas has to go.
Nick Nisi
Oh, shoot. I'm not. \[laughter\]
Adam Stacoviak
So you broke the rules, Nick. You get kicked out. Get out of here...!
Jerod Santo
I'm not the only one screwing this game up...
Adam Stacoviak
Jason... Everything Nick has said during this podcast, just edit it. He's gone.
Thomas Eckert
You're making it easier for me. That's not fair. That's not fair.
Mat Ryer
But that system for deciding I think is so random. Like, you might as well consult horoscopes, or something, Nick. Or get a crystal skull out.
Adam Stacoviak
That's right. \[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
Yeah. Or a pseudo random number generator, or something.
Adam Stacoviak
I saw the stars last night. I knew I was playing this game today, and so therefore it's three.
Thomas Eckert
Like 80% of the Changelog people are Pisces...
Mat Ryer
Is that right?
Thomas Eckert
Gerhard... Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
A lot of Pisces, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Really? Adam, Amal, I think...
Mat Ryer
So do all those people have the same kind of day?
Adam Stacoviak
We have the same energy level. We vibe.
Thomas Eckert
Well, we do check in with each other. Yeah.
Mat Ryer
No, but I mean literally. Like, you read the horoscope and it's like "You're gonna have some financial luck this morning, and then maybe some romance in the evening." So all pisces are just having that same day, like some kind of distributed Groundhog day.
Adam Stacoviak
I haven't had that day in a while, so you know... I get the evening part, but not the -- no money in the morning.
Jerod Santo
You all read the same fortune cookie, and it just says "Defenestration."
Mat Ryer
Yeah. And everyone just jumps out.
Thomas Eckert
You all need to defenestrate -- is that defenestrate or be defenestrated?
Jerod Santo
Yeah, I mean, are you the subject or the object? Alright, Thomas... Ball's in your court here.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, I'm gonna choose -- can you give me the exact definition on number two? I'm pretty sure it's number two.
Jerod Santo
A non-orientable surface, with no distinct inside or outside.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah... It's number two.
Jerod Santo
It's number two.
Adam Stacoviak
Jerod, you should choose. I mean, there's a better answer out there. You should choose one answer.
Thomas Eckert
\[laughs\] Just choose one.
Adam Stacoviak
If you were to choose an answer. I'm not saying that you would or you could... If you were to, which would you
choose?
Jerod Santo
If I was gonna choose one of these for the pure joy of it, I would probably choose a storage solution for Calvin's fetted wares. Even though I don't know what fetted means. But Calvin Klein. I mean, that's the joke?
Thomas Eckert
Yeah.
Nick Nisi
Fetted means smelly.
Jerod Santo
Okay. So I don't have the vocabulary that Nick does, but...
Adam Stacoviak
That's a good one.
Jerod Santo
I like that. And then I also liked Robert C. Klein. Because on that one, Mat just made up a false human, right? Mat, that was yours?
Thomas Eckert
No, that's Bobby Klein.
Mat Ryer
No, yeah, it's me in disguise. This is Bobby Klein.
Jerod Santo
Well, that took a turn...
Mat Ryer
\[01:14:01.15\] "Hey, everybody, it's Bobby Klein here, and I'm gonna tell you about our time-series algorithms...!" Is that too much? That's basically the sort of voice I went with...
Adam Stacoviak
Is that a pretty good impersonation of the person? Is that accurate?
Jerod Santo
No that's him, coming out.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, okay.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, you've got a couple different personalities in there.
Jerod Santo
So wait a minute... You put on this British accent the whole time, but this whole time you actually had that other voice, that was the real you?
Mat Ryer
Robert C. Klein's not the real me.
Adam Stacoviak
It's like Al Pacino mixed with something else. Isn't it, Jerod? Like, Al Pacino mixed with something... Do it again, Mat. One more time.
Mat Ryer
"I'm Robert C. Klein...! I'm not Al Pacinio, or Capuccinio, or whatever you said...!" It's that sort of thing. It's sort of like subtle... It's subtle, I think.
Jerod Santo
Say "I'm a fan of man."
Adam Stacoviak
That's right. Yell something.
Mat Ryer
"I'm a fan of man!"
Jerod Santo
Yeah, I can see some Al Pacino in there.
Mat Ryer
A little bit.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, a little bit.
Mat Ryer
I think Al Pacino got a lot of his talking from Robert C. Klein.
Jerod Santo
Well, he is getting old, so... I mean, there's some similarities there.
Adam Stacoviak
It's true.
Jerod Santo
Alright, Mat and Nick picked number three; that was a mathematical construct with finite volume and infinite surface area. hat was Thomas's, so two points for Thomas.
Thomas Eckert
Sorry... My bad.
Jerod Santo
Meanwhile, Thomas and Adam picked a non-orientable surface with no distinct inside or outside... That is a klein bottle, the correct answer. So --
Mat Ryer
Congrats.
Jerod Santo
...two points for each of them.
Mat Ryer
It's good work.
Thomas Eckert
But Mat, good news - that does exist. It's called Gabriel's Horn. So all you need to go out to the store and buy a Gabriel's Horn.
Jerod Santo
Is that what that is?
Thomas Eckert
It has finite volume, and infinite surface area.
Mat Ryer
I wonder if they sell them on amazon.co.uk.
Thomas Eckert
You can get them in the US, but you can't get them in the UK.
Jerod Santo
One of those, huh?
Thomas Eckert
Because of Brexit. You could before Brexit.
Mat Ryer
You believe in a lot more stuff that can't exist in the US... \[laughter\]
Thomas Eckert
Let's not dig too deep into that one...
Jerod Santo
Moving forward... After seven crazy rounds, we have -- Thomas is in a position to win. He has 13 points. Remember, 15 or the end of the game. So he's right there on the precipice of a victory, ready to be defenestrated out the window. And Mat with 10. Adam, catching it up, has nine. Nick has nine.
Thomas Eckert
Nice.
Jerod Santo
So it's a tight game.
Adam Stacoviak
It's a tight game.
Jerod Santo
We have a few rounds left... We now move to round eight, which is called "How do you do, fellow humans?" In this round, I have asked ChatGPT a very specific thing. Your job is to be a fake ChatGPT, and answer my question exactly the way that ChatGPT would answer it. So what I have told ChatGPT is this phrase: "Make a fictional word that relates to STEM, and a single-sentence definition of the word." That's what I've asked it to do.
Mat Ryer
\[laughs\] It's insane that we have to guess...
Jerod Santo
Now, you must write the response to that particular command. And submit it to me now.
Mat Ryer
Quick follow-up on that one, Jerod... Do you think that's okay? Do you think this is okay, that you've asked us to do this? Because - what on Earth...? How are we gonna get this?
Jerod Santo
Do I think that it's okay? Like, existentially, or morally, or how do you mean?
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Yes, I do.
Mat Ryer
Interesting.
Jerod Santo
To ask you to fake that you're a large language model?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, that bit I'm fine with.
Thomas Eckert
If they're going to take our jobs, we should take their jobs. It's only fair.
Jerod Santo
Right. This is kind of like a plug/pull kind of a move here.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Just letting people text you \[unintelligible 01:17:33.02\]
Jerod Santo
We're fighting back.
Mat Ryer
That's basically what it is, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Now, I asked this to GPT 4.0. O stands for Omni. It did not respond with a picture, but I suppose it could have...
Thomas Eckert
Did it say "Hello, my name is Scarlett Johansson. I'm trapped in a GPT factory..."
Jerod Santo
No, it did not. I think they had to disable that module...
Thomas Eckert
They did.
Mat Ryer
They could have just gotten Robert C. Klein to do it. It would have been good if --
Thomas Eckert
He has a great voice...
Mat Ryer
Lovely, ain't it? It's one of those relaxing, kind of --
Jerod Santo
It's almost too alluring, though. I mean, it might have a lot of nerds falling in love...
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, that's the danger.
Mat Ryer
That's gonna happen anyway though, ain't it? We can't really be trusted with life...
Jerod Santo
No. We might just throw it out the window, you know?
Mat Ryer
\[01:18:17.26\] Can you read again, Jerod, the prompt -- oh, you actually shared that.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, I prompted it by saying "Make up a fictional word that relates to STEM, and a single-sentence definition of the word." And don't make it ductility. That word is dead to me. My ego is too brittle for ductility. Okay, I have Mat's, I have Thomas's, I have Nick's...
Thomas Eckert
But Mat, there is a Grafana dashboard internally that is your social score, as you say different things.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Internal at Grafana, or just in your house, Thomas?
Thomas Eckert
\[unintelligible 01:18:50.09\]
Mat Ryer
You can set up alerts now as well in Grafana Cloud... So if I say something bad, I get alerts going off. It's like "What are you doing?" It's good idea. It's a good system.
Thomas Eckert
Oh, no. I know that, because I just triggered a bunch of alerts at work.
Mat Ryer
I'm sure it's fine...
Thomas Eckert
Mm-hm... Testing in production.
Jerod Santo
Alright, I now have all of the fake ChatGPT responses...
Mat Ryer
Real responses...
Jerod Santo
Well, one of them's not pasting correctly. Hold on, give me a second...
Mat Ryer
These aren't artificial, are they? I don't understand, we're worried --
Thomas Eckert
What makes it artificial?
Mat Ryer
Well, these ones are real. These come from real intelligence.
Thomas Eckert
These are real lies. Farm to table lies.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. We haven't hallucinated these.
Jerod Santo
Non GMO, non GPU... \[laughter\] Alright, I told ChatGPT, I said "Listen up here, ChatGPT... Make up a fictional word that relates to STEM and a single-sentence definition of the word." Here are five potential responses. Number one, "Sourdac is the study of quantum mechanics where it intersects with microbiology." Number two, "Neuroquantimize - the process of encoding and manipulating neural information using quantum computing principles to achieve unprecedented processing speeds and accuracy." Number three, "Geostasis - the theoretical point at which a planet's rotation has ceased, due to the pull of nearby celestial bodies." Number four, "To create a word like this, you can use the dictionary to find a word related to STEM. I have selected singularity... \[laughter\] Which has several concepts to paint on the context. I have chosen to use the definition based on gravity becoming infinite. Inside a singularity lies the infinipoint. The infinipoint - a place in space-time where all points are compressed to a single point." And number five, "STEMist - a palindromic accolade describing those most adept at science, engineering and technology."
Thomas Eckert
Not a palindrome. \[laughs\] Not a palindrome there...
Jerod Santo
Palindromic \[unintelligible 01:21:06.20\]
Thomas Eckert
Palindromish...
Jerod Santo
Yeah, there you go.
Mat Ryer
There is a palindrome backwards. Have you heard of that? The word palindrome backwards is a word that is not a palindrome. Unofficially.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, no, it should have been a palindromatic word.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I guess it's a -- I don't know. Is it my turn?
Jerod Santo
Yes.
Mat Ryer
That long-winded one. The longest one does --
Jerod Santo
The infinipoint?
Mat Ryer
Yeah. I don't know. Because that could easily be also a troll. This is too hard...
Jerod Santo
That's the problem with this game, isn't it? But you're not going for the palindrome one?
Mat Ryer
I might go for that as well... If it's got that wrong, that does sound like --
Jerod Santo
Well, it's a fake definition anyways.
Nick Nisi
Yeah. But that's a very GPT thing...
Mat Ryer
...mistake. But then so is the -- what was the singularity one?
Jerod Santo
That was the long one. The infinipoint.
Mat Ryer
\[01:22:02.21\] That's probably a troll, isn't it? Is it? Could it be a bluff?
Jerod Santo
Is that a rhetorical question?
Mat Ryer
I mean, if someone can answer and tell me if it's a bluff or not, I'll take it. But it was rhetorical.
Thomas Eckert
Jerod can tell you.
Mat Ryer
Alright, I don't know, so I'm gonna go for the neuroquantimize one, just because --
Jerod Santo
Neuroquantimize.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, just because I think that's cool. Whoever made that deserves a point.
Jerod Santo
Neuroquantimize. Alright, so that's Mat's. We go to Nick...
Nick Nisi
Kind of for similar thinking, I'm thinking that it's the long one, number four, because it failed to do the single-sentence thing... And that seems like a very GPT thing to do.
Mat Ryer
It could be a bluff though...
Jerod Santo
Alright, number four. That's the singularity one, the long one. And to Thomas...
Thomas Eckert
I'm thinking STEMist, because it makes sense that GPT would maybe like not fully understand the palindrome thing, and maybe not know what STEM means... So I think STEMist.
Jerod Santo
Alright, very good.
Adam Stacoviak
That was number two, right?
Jerod Santo
That was number five. And last is Adam.
Adam Stacoviak
What was number three again, Jerod?
Jerod Santo
Three was geostasis, the theoretical point at which a planet's rotation has ceased, due to the pull of nearby celestial bodies.
Adam Stacoviak
Huh.
Jerod Santo
But maybe it's just striking a pose, you know?
Adam Stacoviak
Maybe. What's one? One seemed off, but curious.
Jerod Santo
One was sourdac, the study of quantum mechanics where it intersects with microbiology.
Mat Ryer
Why that word though?
Sourdac.
Adam Stacoviak
Against my better judgment I'm gonna go with three.
Jerod Santo
Three is geostasis. Okay, I think we're all in then. Let's start right there. Geostasis, the theoretical point at which a planet strikes a pose. That was Thomas'es creation, so one point to Thomas.
Mat Ryer
Very good. I felt that was real.
Adam Stacoviak
Almost for the win.
Jerod Santo
Thomas went for STEMist, a palindromic, but not palindromish accolade, describing those most adept at science, engineering and technology. That was Mat's.
Thomas Eckert
Very nice, Mat.
Mat Ryer
Bluffs.
Jerod Santo
One point for him. Nick went for the long one... Which I won't read back, because it's long. But it had both the GPT metagame, as well as the correct or a version of the answer in there as well. And that was written by Adam.
Mat Ryer
Ah, such a good bluff.
Thomas Eckert
Genius, genius.
Mat Ryer
That's such a good bluff. That nearly had me.
Adam Stacoviak
I almost got it.
Jerod Santo
Adam knows very well how GPT replies... That was a great one. And Mat went with neuroquantimize, which was actually invented by ChatGPT 4.0 model. So Mat found it. Neuroquantimize.
Mat Ryer
I only picked that because I wanted that to be real. I don't really deserve that. But I'll take it.
Jerod Santo
I'll take my points back...
Mat Ryer
Points accepted.
Jerod Santo
Okay, you accept them. You're not denying them.
Thomas Eckert
You deserve it. You're a legend. Be treated like a legend.
Jerod Santo
Well, the legend is still in second place though. He has not achieved first. Thomas is in first, with 14, one point away from winning, but Mat's in striking distance; he has 13. He could definitely win this round. Adam with 10. Nick slipping into last, if you don't count me - which we don't - with nine points. We would count me if I was close to winning, but since I am not, we'll forget about it. Alright, we now move to round nine, which is a non-STEM round. Dun-dun-dun...!
Mat Ryer
Wow, that was good.
Nick Nisi
Time to shine.
Thomas Eckert
Sorry to all the STEMists out there...
Jerod Santo
Alright. And the word for round nine is chthonic.
Mat Ryer
Spelled?
Jerod Santo
\[01:25:48.14\] That's spelled chthonic, and it's pronounced chthonic.
Thomas Eckert
C-H-T-H...
Jerod Santo
O-N-I-C.
Thomas Eckert
There was a song about this in the '90s, I think. Chthonic.
Jerod Santo
Chthonic.
Thomas Eckert
This is the video game, Chthonic. Chthonic Adventures, Chthonic Knuckles...
Jerod Santo
No, you're thinking of --
Mat Ryer
Yeah, it's the --
Thomas Eckert
Chthonic Tales...
Mat Ryer
It's \[unintelligible 01:26:11.11\] Thega Series. It was on Thega MegaDrive originally.
Jerod Santo
Chthonic the Hedgehog.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I remember that. We had that.
Adam Stacoviak
What is our objective, Jerod, in this round?
Jerod Santo
Just to define it.
Thomas Eckert
Thegaaaa.
Mat Ryer
Can someone harmonize with that for me, please? \[Thegaaaa\] There we go. Yeah. Put autotune on that, please.
Thomas Eckert
Do you just ask for autotune and it just happens?
Jerod Santo
That's what we call post-production.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, the editors are great.
Jerod Santo
We've got to get at least one more song out of Mat before this show is over... So guys, be thinking about something that we can prompt him with.
Thomas Eckert
Non-STEM.
Jerod Santo
Non-STEM. Yeah. Some things are stem, some things are non-STEM.
Mat Ryer
It's such a strange spelling of a word. I don't know any other word that's --
Jerod Santo
Chthonic.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. It sounds like a password.
Jerod Santo
Maybe it's Greek, or something.
Mat Ryer
Bloody hell... Greek again.
Thomas Eckert
You've exhausted all my Greek \[unintelligible 01:27:11.09\]
Jerod Santo
Although with Greek there'd be more k's involved.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, and you'd have to do some sums halfway through.
Jerod Santo
That c at the end would definitely be a k. Maybe we get Mat to sing a Thonic the Hedgehog Song...
Mat Ryer
A what song?
Jerod Santo
Thonic... \[laughs\] So far, I have zero definitions for chthonic.
Mat Ryer
Isn't it chthonic...?
Jerod Santo
They're having too much fun. They don't want the game to end.
Mat Ryer
...don't you think?
Jerod Santo
Isn't it chthonic?
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Not bad. If that was an Apple product, it'd be iChthonic.
Mat Ryer
Yup.
Jerod Santo
Here they come. Oh, they're all in.
Thomas Eckert
Here we're going.
Jerod Santo
Splash.
Thomas Eckert
You had to let them cook.
Jerod Santo
Alright. Aggregating, aggregating...
Adam Stacoviak
Is this your audible version of a spinning wheel?
Jerod Santo
Yes.
Adam Stacoviak
Or your pulsating dots...
Jerod Santo
Let me see what I can find on the web or chthonic.
Mat Ryer
I had a beach ball of death spinning, and then the beach ball itself crashed. And I was half expecting another smaller beach ball to appear next to it, just because \[unintelligible 01:28:14.13\] But yeah, it's bad when your beach ball's crashed as well.
Jerod Santo
Alright, all five definitions for chthonic. Number one, a colossal, terrifying creature with an octopus head, tentacles and a large scaled covered body with immense wings, often portrayed in mythos as an incomprehensible horror terrorizing wayward ships.
Adam Stacoviak
What...? There's so much detail. \[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
Number two, the taste that remains in your mouth after eating apples and bananas. Or is that bananas? I don't know. Number three, a therapy involving holding one's breath for increasing periods of time to help increase lung capacity. Number four, of or relating to the underworld. Number five, a literary device in which both a protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end of the plot. That's five definitions for chthonic. We start with Nick, because it rhymes with chthonic.
Mat Ryer
Does it?
Nick Nisi
I guess that's true...
Jerod Santo
It is.
Nick Nisi
There can be a song there.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, it's easy. It's easy to write that.
Nick Nisi
Can you... Repeat... Three and four, please?
Jerod Santo
Oh, boy... I would love to. Number three, a therapy involving holding one's breath for increasing periods of time to help increase lung capacity. Number four, of or relating to the underworld.
Nick Nisi
Any of those sound right...?
Thomas Eckert
You just picked both of them. \[unintelligible 01:29:49.28\]
Nick Nisi
Yeah.
Thomas Eckert
Ride the two, yeah.
Nick Nisi
I'll do...
Jerod Santo
Personal spread?
Nick Nisi
I'll do three.
Jerod Santo
Alright. Alright, Nick goes with three. That's the lung capacity one. We go to Thomas.
Thomas Eckert
\[01:30:04.20\] I'm also looking at those two, but I'm gonna zag. I'm gonna go to "Of or relating to the underworld."
Jerod Santo
Thomas goes to the underworld.
Thomas Eckert
Oh, thanks.
Jerod Santo
You did it. Adam.
Adam Stacoviak
I'm thinking of one or five. Give me one or five, Jerod.
Jerod Santo
Number one, a colossal, terrifying creature, with an octopus head, tentacles and a large scaled covered body with immense wings, often portrayed in mythos as an incomprehensible horror, terrorizing wayward ships.
Mat Ryer
If one of us on this call has come up with that, then -- do you know what I mean...?
Jerod Santo
I do know what you mean...
Mat Ryer
Good, because I didn't wanna finish the sentence --
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
One of us.
Jerod Santo
What do you mean?
Mat Ryer
I just can't believe that.
Jerod Santo
How do you mean?
Adam Stacoviak
And then how about five?
Jerod Santo
Five was a literary device in which both a protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end of the plot.
Adam Stacoviak
Hm.
Mat Ryer
They all sound so good, don't they? They all sound legit.
Jerod Santo
These are all pretty good definitions, I'm not gonna lie.
Adam Stacoviak
Remind me two again? Two had something to do with the bananas...
Thomas Eckert
Taste in your mouth, something with apples and bananas...
Adam Stacoviak
That sounds like maybe a Mat line.
Jerod Santo
The taste that remains after eating apples and bananas...
Adam Stacoviak
That's kind of chthonic, too. That could be chthonic. Because after you eat the apple and the banana, you're like... You've got that going on; like, it's a chthonic feeling. Let's go with number one. Whoever wrote that deserves some points.
Jerod Santo
Alright, number one then. That's good. And now we go to Mat, for the final selection.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I kind of think that's such a good bluff... But also, I thought Adam did that long one...
Thomas Eckert
He could be picking his own.
Jerod Santo
To get a point?
Adam Stacoviak
It's not illegal.
Thomas Eckert
The person who came up with that deserves the points.
Jerod Santo
That could have been subliminal messaging.
Adam Stacoviak
That's right. "Deserves the points... Deserves the points... Give the points to number two...!"
Jerod Santo
I'm sorry, does anybody wanna change theirs?
Adam Stacoviak
"Number two... Go with number two...!" \[laughter\]
Mat Ryer
Am I the -- yeah, I'm the last one, aren't I?
Jerod Santo
Yeah, this is it, man.
Adam Stacoviak
"Number two is your selection... I'm giving it to you now..."
Mat Ryer
I love the short of the underworld one was written like a dictionary definition. But again, the others haven't been as much, so I think that's someone on here being a silly bugger, or a clever bugger, as I call it... I might just go geostasis, again... Just go for that one...
Thomas Eckert
Geostasis again... \[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
Well, you've definitely got the stasis part down...
Mat Ryer
It's tough. I'm gonna go with the plot one, because I love that. I love that there's a -- that's so good. Again, if someone's come up with that, it's great. But whoever did the first one I think needs help.
Thomas Eckert
\[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
Alright. Well, let's start with the plot one. The plot thickens with a literary device in which the protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end. Mat guessed it. Thomas wrote it. One point for Thomas.
Mat Ryer
Nice one, Thomas.
Jerod Santo
You may have remembered how many points he needed to begin with...
Thomas Eckert
Thank you.
Jerod Santo
He may be there. But does Mat score any points and beat him? That's the question. Next up, we go to a therapy involving holding one's breath. Don't hold your breath too long, Nick, because Mat wrote that...
Nick Nisi
Ahh...!
Jerod Santo
And so a point for Mat. The plot continues to thicken even more, as they're both now scoring points. The long one, which we all agree was the best written and the most interesting, and the handsomest of the group, that Adam selected, was written by the one and only Nick Nisi. Hey, Nick. Nice one, dude! Woo-hoo!
Thomas Eckert
Ahh, Nick Nisi...!
Adam Stacoviak
It's about time...!
Thomas Eckert
That's very well done!
Jerod Santo
In fact, I'm gonna give you a bonus point for that.
Thomas Eckert
Nice.
Jerod Santo
\[01:33:45.00\] Because you're gonna lose and the points don't matter. So if I give you a bonus point, it makes me look nice. \[laughter\] Okay. Finally, Thomas selected "Of or relating to the underworld..." You know, kind of like how Chthonic the Hedgehog goes under the ground...
Thomas Eckert
\[unintelligible 01:33:57.09\]
Jerod Santo
Yeah, that chthonic, "Of or relating to the underworld." So two points for him there, giving him three points for the round, giving him 17 total points and the victory. Congrats, Thomas! You win.
Thomas Eckert
That was beginner's luck. It was a joy to be here, and... Yes, thank you.
Adam Stacoviak
Somehow Nick beat me in the end, though...
Jerod Santo
Well, I have a couple of questions before we go into our congratulatory interview. My first question is, is a literary device in which both a protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end of the plot - is that a real literary device that you just renamed, or you just made it up?
Thomas Eckert
It could be. I thought of it...
Jerod Santo
Is their prior art? Does anybody know a story in which that happens?
Nick Nisi
Face Off. Nicolas Cage and John Travolta...
Thomas Eckert
Face Off, yeah...
Jerod Santo
Yeah, but that is the plot. I guess what do you mean by switch sides? Like, usually it's like the good guy becomes the bad guy, and the bad guy becomes the good guy. I mean, Face Off - it's just their faces that change though, right? It's a good example, Nick. I'll take it.
Thomas Eckert
Mm-hm. I like that.
Adam Stacoviak
Game of Thrones.
Jerod Santo
Who's the good guy in Game of Thrones?
Adam Stacoviak
What's his name - Lannister... And Cersei's brother. He was bad, then he was good, and then he was bad. He actually wasn't bad in the end. He just went from bad to good.
Jerod Santo
Hm...
Nick Nisi
If you don't count the last season.
Adam Stacoviak
Jamie is his name. Jamie Lannister.
Mat Ryer
Why are we spending all this time on it? Thomas completely just made it just.
Adam Stacoviak
He just went back to Cersei. He didn't really turn. He just walked away. He went back to love, not something else.
Thomas Eckert
Well, I can google it now. I wonder if there's a real word for it.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, google that, come back... To our listener out there, if you know of any films or stories or TV shows...
Adam Stacoviak
It's a definition that deserves a word to define it.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, I think Face Off is a pretty good example. My second question is for Mat. Mat, now that you know that chthonic rhymes with Nick, you also know it means "Of or pertaining to the underworld", you also know that you can give it a lisp and make it Sonic the Hedgehog... Can you come up with a song perhaps that combines all these elements into one melodious sonnet? \[unintelligible 01:35:58.10\] Or STEMist. \[laughter\]
Thomas Eckert
Mat the \[unintelligible 01:36:02.13\]
Mat Ryer
What key do you want it in, everybody?
Jerod Santo
F? E sharp? A minor?
Mat Ryer
E shar is F...
Jerod Santo
Don't make it a minor.
Mat Ryer
Don't make it minor. Okay, I know what I'm gonna do. Chthonic is how you pronounce it, is that right?
Jerod Santo
Chthonic. You got it. Or Super-Chthonic, if you wanna go... \[laughs\]
\[01:36:27.01\]
*I like to play games on my fake Omega drive... I like to be the same as the characters on my fake Omega drive...*
*I'm like a little hedgehog spinning around and round... Going on all around, getting coins from underground...*
*Even though I know it, I've gotta get Mr. Doctor Bionic or whatever his name the baddie from Chthonic...*
*And isn't it i-chthonic...? Don't you think? A little too i-chthonic... Yeah...! I really do think...*
*I'm going down, down, down, down... Underground...! Down, down, down, down... Underground! I'm going down, down, down.... Underground! I'm going down, down, down... Sing along if you know it! Is Chthonic... It's just Chthonic... It's just -- I don't know, Chthonic... And it's got a CH at the start of the word, which you don't need... Get rid of it!*
Mat Ryer
\[01:38:24.13\] There we go.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Thomas Eckert
That's great.
Nick Nisi
It's the new bedtime story. Or song.
Mat Ryer
Play that to your kids.
Nick Nisi
Lullaby.
Jerod Santo
That was iconic.
Mat Ryer
Iconic...!
Jerod Santo
Oh, you should have put that in.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, \[unintelligible 01:38:36.00\] but I closed Chrome, didn't I?
Jerod Santo
Aww...! Classic mistake. Alright, thank you, Mat. I like when you said "Sing it with us if you know the words", and you were saying "Down, down, down" so I figured that's what we've gotta do, and then you \[unintelligible 01:38:53.13\] Chthonic, you know?
Mat Ryer
I said "Sing along if you know it", which you don't.
Thomas Eckert
We didn't know the words, so...
Jerod Santo
We thought we did though. That's our part. Yeah. It really made that difficult for us, for so many reasons... But we still appreciate it.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. But I just want to say one thing though as well... I am also a professional, so if you work with me, I am also a grown up. I just want to put that out there.
Jerod Santo
That's a good disclaimer.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah. And that your Grafana dashboard just went up a little bit.
Mat Ryer
Great. Thank you. That's what I need.
Jerod Santo
The legend continues. Alright. Well, Thomas wins, like we said, and so we always allow our winner to take a moment and speak to the audience. If you have anything to talk about, you can plug stuff, you could brag some more, you could donate money to a cause, if you have any morality... You can do whatever you wanted to.
Thomas Eckert
Well, my own money, donate it in public?
Jerod Santo
That would make you look good...
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, but then that makes it not so altruistic, doesn't it? \[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
Well, don't tell us about it.
Thomas Eckert
So we're gonna pause the podcast, and I'm gonna go give money to a good cause, and then come back. You'll just have to know that I did it, but don't think about the fact that I did it, and don't give me any kind of social credit for doing that.
Jerod Santo
Exactly. Good. I'm glad we got that covered.
Thomas Eckert
This is tricky. I see why podcasting is so difficult. I will plug a project I've been working on called Devy, in part because once I've plugged it, I will have to go and get it into a shape that people can come and use it. But the idea here is that you can connect a GitHub repository and publish blog posts in Markdown, and just keep pushing to that GitHub repository... Kind of like a Substack for developers, using GitHub as the CMS. It's an idea I've been playing around with for about a year now, and I'm ready to get some people on it. This is for early, early adopter type of people who don't mind finding bugs, and yelling at me about them... And I would appreciate that. So come yell at me. Go check out Devy.page and let me know what you think.
Jerod Santo
Is that Devy like D-E-V-Y, or how does that work?
Thomas Eckert
D-E-V-Y.
Jerod Santo
Oh, I got it. Alright, Devy.page. The .com was too expensive for a side project.
You couldn't get the whole website, you just got one page. So you have .page.
Thomas Eckert
.page. That's your page.
Jerod Santo
You should have got .pages, and then you could have had...
Thomas Eckert
.pages... That's not a TLD yet.
Jerod Santo
That would have been expensive then, I guess...
Adam Stacoviak
It could be if you put .page/s.
Thomas Eckert
/s. That might be the solution here, is to \[unintelligible 01:41:37.11\]
Jerod Santo
Or .pag, and then get the /es. Then you'd have pages.
Thomas Eckert
Is that Spanish, or...?
Mat Ryer
This is my first .page website, actually. I've never been to a .page before. Have you?
Thomas Eckert
\[01:41:51.19\] It's 10 bucks a month, so...
Jerod Santo
The price is right. Get them while you can. Get them while you can.
Mat Ryer
I don't want that one.
Thomas Eckert
I think devy.com was -- no, no, no, no, you don't have to, but it's good to collect as many domains as you can...
Mat Ryer
That's basically what I'm doing, yeah.
Thomas Eckert
Yes, yes...
Jerod Santo
I'm starting to think this entire thing is just Thomas secretly running the .page TLD, and trying to get people to register.
Thomas Eckert
That's the real money. During the gold rush, you want to sell the pick axes, so...
Jerod Santo
Exactly. That'd be cool, an open source thing published with GitHub, and the only thing is you have to publish to a .page, you know? And then you just sell .pages.
Thomas Eckert
I don't know how you would control that, .pages. Yeah, exactly.
Jerod Santo
Just an idea.
Thomas Eckert
That's how you capture the market. This is good. We can have a little bit of a kind of \[unintelligible 01:42:37.20\] advisors.
Jerod Santo
We're workshopping this as we speak.
Thomas Eckert
Consultants. Workshop it, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Very cool. So check that out. Good job, Thomas. Way to be both a newcomer and the winner... I mean, Adam, I don't know if you have anything to say for yourself...
Adam Stacoviak
Being the lowest?
Jerod Santo
Well, no, I wasn't gonna say that. Just not winning. I mean... \[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
Oh.
Jerod Santo
Remember, you're the one who's played this game a few times.
Adam Stacoviak
I know. It is a challenging game to win, honestly.
Jerod Santo
It is hard. You've only got a one in four chance.
Adam Stacoviak
You really do. I mean, you have to fool people, but you also have to know things.
Jerod Santo
Right. I think that's how Thomas won, because he knew so many of the physics stuff.
Mat Ryer
That's cheating, I think.
Thomas Eckert
Sorry... Yeah, I think maybe I need to --
Jerod Santo
I didn't see that coming... And I'm definitely not inviting him back...
Thomas Eckert
Don't, yeah... Please...
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Nick Nisi
We all beat Jerod, and that's the important thing.
Jerod Santo
I was shut out. I mean, I almost scored some points, until we realized the big flop...
Thomas Eckert
Defenestration, yeah.
Jerod Santo
So it was all-around a frustrating game for me... Also, Nick was here, which also adds to my frustration. Nick, what are your thoughts on \#define, your finishing near the bottom...? Anything else you'd like to say?
Nick Nisi
I'm not near the bottom. What's that like, Jerod?
Jerod Santo
Well, let's see... You do have 11 points.
Mat Ryer
Scores, did you say them?
Jerod Santo
Which is -- probably not. Thomas had 17. Mat was in second with 14. Nick took third with 11, and Adam was in last with 10.
Thomas Eckert
No, Adam was not in last.
Jerod Santo
Well, what do you mean?
Thomas Eckert
Jerod was in last. \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
I'm just the moderator.
Thomas Eckert
If you can win, you can lose.
Jerod Santo
Well, I didn't even play. How can you lose not having played? I don't understand your logic. Your illogical. Mat, what do you think? Do you like this game?
Mat Ryer
Um, I like it had words in it, and then you have to make up the definition of the words, and then you have to guess what each other's ones are... And if you get it right, you get two points. And then if you're fooled by someone...
Jerod Santo
Are you just showing me how I should have explained it at the beginning? Is that what you're doing?
Mat Ryer
That's the bit I like about it.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. The rules.
Mat Ryer
I also liked the mistake. I think that was probably the most exciting bit of the podcast, when you made that mistake.
Jerod Santo
I liked how nobody believed me at first. Thomas had this dumbfounded look on his face... Like "No, seriously. I really did mess it up." \[laughter\]
Nick Nisi
I like how it naturally just brings in the AI elements, so that we don't have to talk about it, or reluctantly talk about it... It's just there. And you get it out of the way.
Jerod Santo
It's just part of our lives now. Yeah. Embrace it, is that what you're saying?
Nick Nisi
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Well, speaking of AI...
Jerod Santo
Oh, gosh...
Adam Stacoviak
Round number eight. My definition. I mean, that was gold, right?
Jerod Santo
That was a good one.
Thomas Eckert
That was good. Yeah, that was really good.
Jerod Santo
You did a good job of actually sounding like it.
Adam Stacoviak
Read it again, Jerod. Go ahead.
Jerod Santo
Read it again. You want me to read it again?
Adam Stacoviak
Just for fun.
Jerod Santo
Well, this was the "How do you do, fellow humans?" round, in which Adam wrote: "To create a word like this, you can use a dictionary to find a word related to STEM. I have selected singularity, which has several concepts depending on the context. I've chosen to use the definition based on gravity becoming infinite. Inside of singularity lies the infinipoint, a place in space-time where all points are compressed to a single point."
Mat Ryer
Is this singularity?
Adam Stacoviak
Honestly, I should get like at least seven bonus points.
Jerod Santo
At least seven...? \[laughs\] He's trying to negotiate a win here. And Thomas already gave his plug.
Adam Stacoviak
That's what would tie me for first.
Jerod Santo
We can't negotiate a win for you.
Thomas Eckert
You could edit it out. And then Adam, do you have a podcast you want to plug?
Adam Stacoviak
There's a show out there I think that's pretty awesome, and it's called Oxide & Friends. I was just on it. I think it's coming out this week, or next week... I'm not sure when. We were talking about Silicon Valley.
Jerod Santo
\[01:46:12.10\] Oh, gosh...
Adam Stacoviak
A lot.
Thomas Eckert
That's not surprising.
Jerod Santo
Hard pass. Hard pass.
Adam Stacoviak
There was a little bit of love for you sprinkled in there, Jerod. You might wanna listen.
Jerod Santo
Ohh. Can you give me a transcript?
Adam Stacoviak
I didn't run the show though, so I couldn't control the topic.
Jerod Santo
Of course.
Thomas Eckert
Well, when Bryan came on, he talked about Silicon Valley, so...
Jerod Santo
Well, of course.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, but I didn't let him talk too much about it, purposefully. I didn't go deep. I could have gone further in, but...
Jerod Santo
Was Jessie on that show, Jessie Frazelle? She's one of the Oxide founders, right?
Adam Stacoviak
It was Adam Leventhal, and...
Mat Ryer
Jessie was a consultant on Silicon Valley.
Jerod Santo
Is that right?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, she was.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, that sounds right.
Adam Stacoviak
I was discussing the show.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, that's awesome.
Thomas Eckert
Wow.
Mat Ryer
I mean, genuinely, it was on when we were in a startup incubator in Sunnyvale, in California, and it was too real that we genuinely couldn't watch it. I hear people like to say about The Office, they're like "Oh, I couldn't watch it, because it's so cringy." But I'm like "Grow up." But this genuinely -- I couldn't do it. The same things were happening, but it was going better in Silicon Valley. And I think when it's going better in a comedy show than it is in real life, you're gonna have to take a step back and reevaluate.
Adam Stacoviak
Lots were skipped in there, yeah... But we talked about other things too, but that was a lot of it. I would say probably 50%. Maybe 40%... But only because it kept going back there, and it wasn't always me. I promise. And they want to borrow the ding for the show.
Jerod Santo
Oh, they can borrow the ding.
Adam Stacoviak
They love the ding.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, the ding works well.
Jerod Santo
The ding does work well.
Adam Stacoviak
And maybe even the spooler horn too, because I spoiled a couple things.
Thomas Eckert
Nuclei.
Jerod Santo
Nuclei, the center of your issues.
Adam Stacoviak
That was a good one.
Jerod Santo
I'll say, Nick wrote some good definitions, even though he finished near the bottom - I'll just keep reminding him that... The Nuclei definition was good, and the last one was spectacular. The monster, the horror --
Nick Nisi
It started with ch, and I was thinking a cthulhu.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. Good thought. Good thoughts. Good times.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. Very thoughtful answers all around. This was a solid round.
Jerod Santo
Solid cast.
Thomas Eckert
The game changes so fundamentally depending on who's playing. You've got different play styles, you've got people who want to go for the funny ones, and...
Jerod Santo
Right. Yeah, Mat played it straighter than I thought he would. He had a real good one with the banana, but beyond that, it was pretty --
Mat Ryer
I was coming to just be an absolute --
Adam Stacoviak
I tried to bring the banana back...
Mat Ryer
I was trying to be an idiot, and I did alright early on --
Jerod Santo
You were trying to be an idiot?
Mat Ryer
I thought "I've got a chance here." Yeah, so I got --
Jerod Santo
You couldn't keep it up.
Mat Ryer
\[unintelligible 01:48:40.01\] Foolish. But no, it was very fun.
Adam Stacoviak
With "Chthonic is a taste that remains in your mouth after eating apples and bananas..."
Mat Ryer
Honestly, all of them were very good definitions. It was hard.
Thomas Eckert
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
It's gotta be tough... Sitting over here with the actual answers for me it's always easier, because I'm just staring at the right stuff, but...
Mat Ryer
Easy for you, does it, Jerod? How so?
Thomas Eckert
Yeah, I guess \[unintelligible 01:49:02.16\]
Mat Ryer
Oh yeah, I suppose if you've got -- oh, I see. So if you've got the answers...
Jerod Santo
That's why I'm not playing. I can't play. I know all the answers.
Mat Ryer
Well, you should have at least scored better then. At least. If not...
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] I almost scored some points. Alright, let's somehow land the helicopter. The last thing we have to do is say - well, if you like \#define, let us know; we'd love to hear from you. We can play future games. You can submit your own words. I had a few listeners submit words. They just didn't quite cut the mustard. You know, they've gotta be great. They've gotta be amazing.
Mat Ryer
They gotta be.
Jerod Santo
Also, graviton - not great. Three of you knew what it was... So even I didn't cut the mustard on that one. You know...
Mat Ryer
We don't have physics masters.
Jerod Santo
That's true.
Mat Ryer
You know what I mean?
Jerod Santo
So no cheating...
Thomas Eckert
Yeah. Which actually means that I kind of wasted my time. I got a year and a half that I kind of -- I'm just never getting back.
Mat Ryer
We should each just get a masters now, probably, because...
Jerod Santo
Like an honorary?
Thomas Eckert
That's true, too. I can send you guys one. Once you have one, you can just copy and make a new one, so I'll send you guys all copies...
Jerod Santo
Just copy paste that thing.
Thomas Eckert
...of the physics master's degree, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Fair. There are other \#define game shows in our feed. This is our third time playing this particular game. If you want us to play it more, let us know. If you like other games, we have Gophers Say, we have Frontend Feud, we JS Danger... Those are also in the feed. They also can be found under the topic "games" on our website, Changelog.com/topics/games. There you'll find every game show we've ever played for your listening pleasure.
Alright, that's all for now. I guess all we have to do now is say "Bye, friends."
Adam Stacoviak
Bye, friends.
Thomas Eckert
Bye, friends.
Mat Ryer
Friends...! Hash Define...
Nick Nisi
Bye...
