Hello, Matworld! (Friends)
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
1hr 15min Apr 25, 2025
Join us on a journey to make believe worlds with our good friend Mat Ryer. The assignment; we each get to make up a new world where we invent a new gadget and declare a new rule. This episode is sure to delight loyal fans and especially those who enjoy Mat Ryer on the show and a good/bad song or two.
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Featuring:
- Mat Ryer – GitHub, LinkedIn, Bluesky, X
- Jerod Santo – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, X
- Adam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, X
Show Notes:
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!
Adam Stacoviak
I was in a different dan-tan recently...
Mat Ryer
Where?
Adam Stacoviak
...and it was just a typical dan-tan. So cool...
Jerod Santo
So cool... \[laughs\] But he's not going to tell us where it was. It was too cool.
Mat Ryer
I've seen some amazing downtowns in America. I'm very well traveled.
Jerod Santo
I'm sorry, downtown? I'm not familiar. Do you mean dan-tans?
Mat Ryer
Dan-tans.
Jerod Santo
Thank you.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. So I've visited lots of them. And there's some really lovely ones in Colorado. This is like proper olden days.
Jerod Santo
Oh, yeah.
Mat Ryer
Probably all across the country.
Jerod Santo
That's right.
Mat Ryer
Where you feel like you're in a Western film.
Adam Stacoviak
Break that down for me, when you say "proper" and then "olden days". What does that mean?
Mat Ryer
Oh, it just means like for real olden days.
Jerod Santo
Like the Wild West movies that you've seen.
Adam Stacoviak
Just break it down. Break it down, though.
Mat Ryer
Right. So you've got like --
Adam Stacoviak
All the way.
Mat Ryer
There's basically like a lot of dusty area, wooden buildings, wooden building saloon doors...
Adam Stacoviak
Fine dust.
Mat Ryer
...there's a guy in there chewing tobacco... Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Did you see any of those -- what do you call those things?
Jerod Santo
Tumbleweed?
Adam Stacoviak
Tumbleweeds, yeah. Not dust bunnies, but tumbleweeds.
Jerod Santo
Just rolling through...
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Well, I get a lot of them in my normal life as well.
Jerod Santo
Really?
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Just after a joke, or a witty remark, sometimes I'll do a little rhyme, a little comment, something, and then, you know, just silence for a bit. You can hear it blow past. But it adds to the effect.
Adam Stacoviak
I'm thinking about crickets...
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Same. Same thing.
Adam Stacoviak
Tumbleweeds and crickets?
Mat Ryer
If you make a joke and no one laughs, if you listen carefully, you can hear a game of cricket being played.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay...
Mat Ryer
One of those rare things, yeah...
Jerod Santo
I would never play cricket.
Mat Ryer
No.
Adam Stacoviak
No. See, now - here again is a misfire, because I was talking about crickets, which is what you hear when you tell a joke when nobody laughs. Silence.
Jerod Santo
Where'd you go, Mat? Where did you visit here in the States? The state of Colorado?
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah. Well, I lived there. I used to live there, in Denver and in Boulder.
Jerod Santo
Boulder?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, Colorado.
Adam Stacoviak
Say Boulder. How do you say Boulder?
Mat Ryer
Well, I say Boulder.
Adam Stacoviak
Say it again.
Mat Ryer
Boulder.
Jerod Santo
Can you say Boulder dash?
Mat Ryer
I can say Boulder dash, but I can't say --
Jerod Santo
It sounds cooler when you say it.
Mat Ryer
I don't think so. To me, you're the cool ones.
Jerod Santo
That's why I think we have a friendship, because we sound cool to you, and you sound cool to us... And it kind of just makes up for our overall lack of coolness.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. I mean, if you sounded like me, I just wouldn't like you, you know? \[laughter\]
Mat Ryer
Yeah. But Adam, I can't believe someone exists who talks like you at all. That's a thrill for me. Imagine that. It's like being in a movie.
Jerod Santo
It's awesome, Adam.
Adam Stacoviak
I guess so...
Jerod Santo
What is it about his voice? Is it the mellifluous sounds? Is it the words he's using, or the combination?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, it's just the whole sort of package, really.
Jerod Santo
He is the entire package.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
The whole package.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, \[unintelligible 00:05:45.04\]
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. I love that. Well, ditto, Mat. I mean, I think if we had a world where your voice didn't exist, it would not be Mat's world.
Mat Ryer
No. My world, my voice.
Jerod Santo
We're getting ahead of ourselves, or perhaps we're trying to get ahead of ourselves... Because perhaps a world where Jerod's in charge, Mat's voice also wouldn't exist. Let's not reveal any spoilers. Mat, you brought a strange idea to us today...
Mat Ryer
Yeah, thank you.
Jerod Santo
Actually, you didn't bring it to us today, but you brought it for today.
Mat Ryer
Sure did...
Jerod Santo
Which is what? What's this idea...
Adam Stacoviak
"I'm coming over. Here's some toys."
Jerod Santo
...and how did you come up with it? And why are we agreeing to it?
Mat Ryer
Well, the why-ing we're agreeing, that's on you. And I do think why-ing should be a word.
Jerod Santo
I do whine a lot.
Mat Ryer
But you can't just make up words like that, can you? People look at you strangely, or there's a tumbleweed, or something...
Adam Stacoviak
I'm down with it. Let's introduce it. Why-ing. What does it break down to mean? Is it like when you're thinking about something, that's the process of why-ing? You're thinking about why it should or should not be a thing?
Jerod Santo
You're why-ing it. You're trying to figure it out.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, why is that? Yeah, you're why-ing it.
Jerod Santo
It's kind of like how-ing. Sometimes you how something... Other times you why it. So you're why-ing, or you're how-ing... Sometimes you're who-ing...
Mat Ryer
Well, if I owned the world, I'd be able to just make these new words anything I like. If someone's eating a sausage, I could say, "Yeah, sausage!" I could make that socially normal in this world.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] That one's not that weird.
Mat Ryer
No, it's not. It doesn't have to be weird, it's just what I like.
Adam Stacoviak
Tell me that's a throwback to your time in Germany.
Jerod Santo
Oh, yeah, Berlin, when they were all calling you bad names.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love Berlin.
Adam Stacoviak
Isn't it because \[unintelligible 00:07:35.16\] though? Wasn't there something involved with sausage?
Jerod Santo
Yeah. He said, "Yeah, sausage", and they said... What did they say, Mat?
Mat Ryer
They're like "Oh, we don't really -- we don't want to just be associated with that. We've got a lot going on also." So yeah, that's fair enough.
Jerod Santo
Didn't some lady call you a donka?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, everyone was saying like "Danke, danke, danke." But originally, I thought they were calling me names... But I didn't know that -- that just means thank you.
Jerod Santo
It does. Probably for leaving. Probably thanking you for leaving.
Mat Ryer
Well, they're a lot more polite than I'd originally experienced.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, my gosh... The sausage bit. The sausage bit. Well, if you're not tracking, you should go back in time and listen to past shows... We can't catch up, I'm sorry.
Jerod Santo
\[00:08:18.12\] Yeah, that's just a callback that's just too deep in the stack...
Adam Stacoviak
It is a deep cut.
Jerod Santo
You're going to overflow. Mat, there's a strange dichotomy with British people, and you're my best example, because I know you probably better than any British person... And that's this politeness juxtaposed with tomfoolery, or like just calling names and being mean. So what's up with that? It's like there's like a polite society aspect, and a properness, and there's also like this underhanded "I'm going to call you a name, and you're not going to realize it's a bad word."
Mat Ryer
Yes. Well, I think what's really going on is -- there is the politeness thing, where if you bump into somebody in the street, you say sorry, even if they've bumped into you. But it's not in the same way that you might say sorry in other places, where you're sort of taking responsibility. You're not.
Jerod Santo
You're not.
Mat Ryer
Everyone knows it was their fault. Now, they have to also say sorry, and then everything's okay. Just socially. It's the social rule.
Jerod Santo
So sorry might mean like "It's your fault, and we both know it."
Mat Ryer
Yeah. It's like "Oh, sorry", but it's almost like a polite way of just acknowledging something's happened that shouldn't have happened, and you both say it, and then everything's okay. And then you haven't really had to assign blame, or anything. You can kind of just sweep it under the carpet.
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
But if the second person doesn't say they're sorry back, and it was their fault, that's the worst thing that can happen on the street. Or one of...
Jerod Santo
So them's just fighting words; fighting non-words.
Mat Ryer
Kind of, yeah. Although in London people are from everywhere, so you can never really assume... But if it's a British person that bumps into you and then you say "Oh, sorry", and then they don't say sorry, they just look at you or just carry on with their lives... They've crossed the line.
Adam Stacoviak
You assume they're a tourist then, maybe.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, maybe.
Adam Stacoviak
Maybe those folks are tourists, and everyone else is Brits, and those are the people that say...
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Although in London everyone's from everywhere, so it's kind of like...
Jerod Santo
You can't be from everywhere. You have to be from one place, generally.
Adam Stacoviak
You just walk around being upset then, basically?
Mat Ryer
You just sort of get on with it, don't you? But then there's the banter side, where you basically try and be... It's a way of making friends as you're sort of mean to strangers sometimes.
Jerod Santo
And friends too, right?
Mat Ryer
Oh, definitely.
Jerod Santo
More mean to your friends than you are to strangers.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Which explains why you're not very nice to me very often. I take it as a compliment, sir.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, you should do. But you have American friends that are just always just nice to you, and just say nice things like "Oh, neat hat, Jerod." Stuff like that.
Jerod Santo
I mean, I prefer it... But you know, those people are hard to find. \[laughter\]
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, neat hat...
Jerod Santo
"Neat hat, Jerod..."
Mat Ryer
Neat hat, Jerod.
Jerod Santo
Thank you, sir.
Adam Stacoviak
I like the word proper, in places -- I assume it's in the place of a word like good, or "I'm going to get something nice", or the best...
Mat Ryer
It's like real. If it's proper.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. Authentic.
Mat Ryer
Imagine there's like a traditional way of making something. Yeah, it's authentic. And someone makes it that authentic way, you'd be like "Oh, that's a proper drink." Or someone will sometimes come out with a cup of tea that they've made, and it's horrible, because it's too strong, and they go "That's a proper cup of tea. Go on, get that down you. Get that down you."
Adam Stacoviak
What do you say when it's not good?
Jerod Santo
No, they just say it's proper, but they say it in a way that you know they mean the opposite. It's like the sorry thing. And then you say "Donka." \[laughter\]
Mat Ryer
So would you guys like to come to Mat World?
Jerod Santo
Oh, yes. I'm sorry. That was a proper sidetracking. We sidetracked you... Back to Mat World. This is a world in which you decide, or -- what do you decide, Mat? What happens...
Mat Ryer
\[00:12:09.07\] Yeah. So I'm going to take you to Mat World, and it's basically a place that I've just sort of designed. It's my planet. I get to choose what it's like there. There's going to be interesting places, there's going to be some interesting food and drink to explore... And then maybe a new gadget, a new rule for society... And then something that you would just -- you'd just like to be a little bit different. Maybe it's like this world, but you would like it to be slightly tweaked. What would you do?
Jerod Santo
Gotcha.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Okay, so this is the idea here. Of course, we have Jerod's world and Adam's world waiting in the wings...
Mat Ryer
\[unintelligible 00:12:47.04\] visiting.
Jerod Santo
But this is Mat's idea, and you are our guest, so...
Adam Stacoviak
You go first.
Jerod Santo
Take us to Mat world. What is this place like, Mat world?
Mat Ryer
Let's go. Let's go, get in your rocket, put your seatbelts on... We're going to take off now. And in the unlikely event of an emergency, I want you to sort out your own masks first. That's very important. Don't be helping someone else. Oxygen mask. Okay? Don't try and help anyone else.
Jerod Santo
Oh, I thought we had to sort our masks, like we had more than one of them and we were going to sort them by size, or something.
Mat Ryer
Oh, I see. Yeah, this is the British -- sorry, I'll do the American version after. Yeah. If you're feeling unwell, there's a tiny little bag in the seat in front of you, in the seat pocket in front of you... So if you could please use that. It's really tiny though, so don't do any big -- you know what I mean...?
Adam Stacoviak
Just a little \[unintelligible 00:13:39.09\]
Mat Ryer
Yeah, just do a little one.
Jerod Santo
It sounds like Wayne's World. Remember that? If you're going to spew, spew into this.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah. That guy designed a lot of our hospitality on board the rockets to Mat World. Yeah, because it's a kind of funny world. It's kind of silly, isn't it? It's going to be my world.
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
I hope you enjoy your time with us. Remember to please visit the dungeon for over-engineers. This is a place where if you over-engineer things and make loads of complexity where it's not needed, you go in this dungeon. It's a simple thing. Harsh, but fair, I think. You have to build an MVP before you're legally allowed to build anything more complicated, otherwise you might not be able to build MVPs... And that's why we have the dungeon of over-engineers. Any questions about this place?
Jerod Santo
How do you get out?
Mat Ryer
You just have to build something really simple. But good.
Jerod Santo
Oh. Like a fizzbuzz, or...?
Mat Ryer
You can do. You can try.
Jerod Santo
Hello World.
Mat Ryer
I don't know about Hello World...
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Well, does it get any simpler than that?
Mat Ryer
Hello Mat World you could do.
Jerod Santo
Hello Mat World. I like that one. Okay, so dungeon for over-engineers, and really small puke bags in the --
Mat Ryer
Yeah, but that's not part of the world.
Jerod Santo
Oh, I'm sorry.
Mat Ryer
That's just in case anyone's feeling unwell on the flight.
Jerod Santo
Gotcha.
Mat Ryer
When you get to Mat World, please, please do not forget to sample the delights of clever coffee. You play podcasts into the beans as they're growing, and then when you brew the coffee, that information actually can get into you, into your body.
Jerod Santo
Oh, wow. Like osmosis.
Mat Ryer
Kind of like that, yeah, but through coffee. And yeah, you just sort of get the knowledge. So that's really cool. You'd be like "Oh, I want to learn about politics. I'll drink some politics coffee", or maybe the Peruvian coffee, you can learn about Machu Picchu, or something...
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, my gosh... \[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
Maybe that's the place. Yeah, maybe. Would you like a cup? What would you have in your coffee? And wouldn't you like that? You could just have a coffee, and you'd get your API docs in your brain...
Jerod Santo
It sounds kind of amazing, actually.
Adam Stacoviak
I'm digging it.
Jerod Santo
I'm wondering about how diluted it might be... Because you're really just passing water through the beans. Maybe if you actually ate the coffee beans, you would just become all-knowing.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. I think it's just like caffeine, though. It only lasts that long.
Jerod Santo
Oh, it goes away.
Mat Ryer
\[00:16:10.12\] Yeah... You forget it.
Jerod Santo
Not as cool now. Nowhere near as cool. So you just drink it for your morning like coding session, and you just like know the Stripe API inside out, for instance, if you're drinking Stripe's coffee.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
And then you lose it later in the day.
Mat Ryer
You lose it. It wears off. Yeah, but you might be like "Oh, I'm going to write a Grafana dashboard. How do I do that? Let me drink the Grafana brew." And then you've got that, you've downloaded -- "Oh, I've downloaded the wrong bit."
Adam Stacoviak
Is this an advertisement?
Jerod Santo
He's sneaking it in.
Mat Ryer
No, no, no. I'm just giving an example. It's another example.
Adam Stacoviak
Gosh...
Mat Ryer
No, this coffee doesn't exist. It's not an advert. It's not a real advert.
Jerod Santo
Oh. It's not for sale.
Mat Ryer
You can't play podcasts into the coffee beans and then that information goes into the beans, as far as I know.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay...
Jerod Santo
Now, what if you played this podcast right here that we're recording into the coffee beans, and then drank the coffee? What would you know afterwards?
Mat Ryer
This entire -- everything we talk about in this.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Some high-quality coffee...
Mat Ryer
Yeah. When you order them, I think, you choose the audio --
Adam Stacoviak
We call that proper coffee.
Jerod Santo
That would be proper.
Mat Ryer
Proper. Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Okay, so clever coffee... This is your best beverage.
Mat Ryer
That's the best beverage.
Jerod Santo
What else you got?
Mat Ryer
Well, while you're here, please, please try, if you can, the falafel wraps. They're lovely. There's nothing special about them. Just love a falafel wrap.
Jerod Santo
You have complete creative freedom to come up with anything that you want...
Mat Ryer
You can't beat it though.
Jerod Santo
...and you just go with a falafel.
Mat Ryer
The only way I think you could beat a falafel wrap is if you had a headache and you made the falafel wrap also take away headaches.
Jerod Santo
Well, why didn't you do that then? I mean, you can do whatever you want here, Mat. It's Mat World.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, because I don't have a headache.
Jerod Santo
Okay.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. And plus, there's going to be more regulations with that sort of food, isn't there? So I can't be bothered with that.
Jerod Santo
What about the clever coffee? I think they'd probably regulate that. Wouldn't they?
Mat Ryer
\[laughs\] Yeah, they'd try. But we're outsmarted them, because we listened -- we've had a cup of business strategy.
Adam Stacoviak
And what if you're drinking like the business brew, so to speak, and you get a comedic latte instead? You learn about comedy versus business.
Mat Ryer
You get a legal flat white, and then you've got yourself armed to the teeth, really, to represent yourself in court.
Adam Stacoviak
You have to have -- what do they call those...? Those builds. Deterministic builds? No, not deterministic. Where you know the build, end to end.
Jerod Santo
Reproducible.
Adam Stacoviak
Reproducible builds. You have to be able to reproduce the fact that -- you've got to document what knowledge went into this coffee, so that I'm not drinking some of your politics. I just want to drink some business brew.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, there we go. There's that whole --
Adam Stacoviak
Don't be slippin' no proper politics up in here.
Mat Ryer
No, that's it. That was -- there was that big scandal where they were worried about that, because everyone just suddenly got into wearing mullets again, and they were worried that someone had spiked the clever coffee. They look lovely, but --
Jerod Santo
I've been waiting for an explanation for this...
Mat Ryer
Yeah, that's what's \[unintelligible 00:19:19.29\]
Jerod Santo
That is plausible.
Adam Stacoviak
Sneaking it in. That's how you've gotta do it right there. Microdosing.
Jerod Santo
Microdosing the mullet coffee.
Adam Stacoviak
That's what it's all about.
Jerod Santo
Now, is it a podcast about mullets though? So first you have to find a podcast about mullets, and you turn that into the coffee, and then people grow mullets.
Adam Stacoviak
They're doing fade mullets now. We have like really high hair, a fade, and then it fades into a mullet off the back.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, it's a good idea.
Jerod Santo
Perms are back, too. Boy perms.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. Those spiky fade mullets.
Jerod Santo
Keep going, Mat. What else you got?
Mat Ryer
Well, I'd love to show you -- well, if you want to come into my house and have a sit down, notice that the sofa doesn't have any legs. It's just floating. You're welcome.
Jerod Santo
\[00:20:01.14\] \[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
No, don't be scared. It's perfectly fine. Sit on it. It moves a bit more than normal. But sit down. That's not even it.
Adam Stacoviak
So when you sit down on the sofa it kind of moves a little bit?
Mat Ryer
Well, it does. It doesn't have any legs.
Jerod Santo
Is it hovering, or...?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, it's hovering. But it moves when you sit on it. It's like suspension, because --
Adam Stacoviak
Is there any way to make it not move? Like a lock?
Mat Ryer
The more expensive ones are more sturdy.
Jerod Santo
Is it loud? Is it displacing air underneath it?
Mat Ryer
No, it doesn't stand there. It just floats.
Jerod Santo
Alright. Awesome.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Levitates. Then we'd call it levitating, actually.
Mat Ryer
What's the difference between levitating and floating?
Adam Stacoviak
That's a great question...
Jerod Santo
Is that a great question?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, that is a great question.
Jerod Santo
\[unintelligible 00:20:44.23\] that question is, honestly.
Adam Stacoviak
Never thought about that. If you're floating...
Jerod Santo
I think it's two different words that mean essentially the same thing.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, but there's got to be something different...
Adam Stacoviak
I think floating might be the act of like being a certain weight, and that there's neither pull nor push when gravity is concerned. But when you're levitating, you're resisting gravity, staying in the same position.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. So if it's density then, if you're less dense, you float. That's floating.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. Because you're floating, you're buoyant with gravity.
Mat Ryer
Right. But if you are magically, or some other means, lifting yourself up... Okay. There we go.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay. So that's what your -- your sofa levitates, which is the reason for the movement.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, they just move a little bit when you sit down, and I'm just saying, don't be scared when you sit down. This isn't even my main gadget. I want to tell you about this new gadget.
Adam Stacoviak
I'm going into the details here. This levitating couch is -- stop the press.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, yeah. But it's good. Imagine big magnets.
Adam Stacoviak
Go. I'm ready. I want more. Give me the rest.
Mat Ryer
So I might've talked about this before, but it's coming back... Nightrider, or Sleepy Car, I call it. It's essentially you -- it's like a \[unintelligible 00:21:59.06\] You can fall asleep in a car, and it's a self-driving car... So if you wanted to go -- what's a place that's like eight hours away from where you live, Jerod?
Jerod Santo
Denver.
Mat Ryer
Denver. So you want to go to Denver for the day. It's a pain to do that now. But with \[unintelligible 00:22:16.24\] vehicle you can get in the car, it will drive you there while you sleep, you then wake up, you're in Denver for the day... You go back to bed in the car, it drives you back. So as far as you're concerned, you've just slept in a car - or slightly better than a car - but you've teleported, essentially. You have a day where you are now, and then the next day in Denver, the day after that back where you are now.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, I think teleporting might be a stretch. I mean, you're sleeping the whole time, right?
Mat Ryer
You're sleeping, but it's close to teleporting, isn't it? Because unless you're conscious of where you are every time while you're asleep... I'm certainly not. I don't even know I'm still in the bedroom.
Jerod Santo
I'm kind of appreciating how much Mat undershot on these. They're understated. He had a complete freedom to do whatever he wants. He comes with the falafels, and full self-driving, basically. This is a really good Waymo, isn't it, Mat?
Mat Ryer
It's basically a good -- it's a nanite Waymo.
Jerod Santo
It's a nanite Waymo... \[laughs\] Alright, alright...
Mat Ryer
It's a sleepy bedtime Waymo.
Jerod Santo
Mat World is like the current world we're in, but maybe like six months earlier or later.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Okay, I like it.
Mat Ryer
I hope so.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. I hope so too.
Except the floating couch thing. I mean, we're not quite there yet, but...
Mat Ryer
No. Well you can, if you have big, strong magnets... But I think clever coffees are going to be at least eight months off.
Jerod Santo
Clever coffee is a great idea.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Alright, so you've got a gadget which is a nanite Waymo...
Mat Ryer
Sleepy car...
Jerod Santo
Yeah, sleepy car.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, yeah. It's a hush-hush bedtimes vehicle van. You can get \[unintelligible 00:23:47.28\]
Jerod Santo
And you're a salesman, because you claim it teleports you, but what it does is it drives you places while you're sleeping.
Mat Ryer
It's like teleporting. It's the closest we'll get. I fell asleep on a flight to the US once. I got on the plane, they messed around, tried to warn me about not to put someone else's mask on...
Jerod Santo
\[00:24:05.11\] Yeah, you sort your own mask...
Mat Ryer
Well, I wasn't even thinking of helping anyone else at all, so I don't know what they're playing at. And they're like "Oh, do you want this tiny little packet of peanuts?" "Yes, please." "Would you like some even smaller pretzels?" I've never seen a pretzel that small. Have you? Anyway, this is just in my head, but this happens. So I get on the plane, I fall asleep, I wake up in America. That's where you all live.
Jerod Santo
Correct.
Mat Ryer
And to me, that was like two hours of my life, conscious. So that was like teleporting.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. I used to do all the time when we'd go on family vacations and I was a child. I'd just sleep in the car. You know, you leave your house, and then you wake up and you're there.
Mat Ryer
There you go.
Jerod Santo
So I'm excited for Mat World. What else you got?
Mat Ryer
Did you like that when you were a kid, doing that, Jerod?
Jerod Santo
I loved it.
Mat Ryer
Yeah... \[laughs\] See?
Jerod Santo
That's what I'm saying. I love it.
Mat Ryer
What has happened? You forgot about that love? Because \[unintelligible 00:25:02.26\]
Jerod Santo
No, it's just that just my parents were driving the car. I wasn't teleporting, really. I understand from my perspective; I get, a hundred percent, what you're saying. I'm just feeling like -- you know, complete creative freedom to invent a gadget. That's all.
Mat Ryer
Okay, good. So just to be clear, you're just making clear for your listeners that -- okay, good.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] This is your game, by the way, so... Just keep that in mind. Okay. What else you got? I can't wait to hear this rule.
Mat Ryer
Well, exactly. The laws are different on each of our planets, of course. And mine - there's a law that's actually quite a strange one, that was passed a few years ago. If you want a doc at work, you have to write it. Okay? You can't say "Let's have this doc", and then make someone else write it. It's a law.
Jerod Santo
It's a law. \[laughter\]
Mat Ryer
Yeah. In Mat World.
Jerod Santo
Okay. This is a good one.
Adam Stacoviak
You want something written? Write it yourself.
Jerod Santo
You cannot request that somebody else write some documentation.
Mat Ryer
Yes.
Jerod Santo
You have to write it yourself.
Mat Ryer
You have to write it. And if you can't, because you don't know, then you have to find out in order to write it. Yeah.
But it proves that you need it, first of all... Because it's easy to just imagine "Here's six docs we should have." That's easy.
Jerod Santo
Alright, let's play this out for a moment. So let's say Mat in Mat World, you write a new microservice. It's perfectly engineered, so you're not in danger of the dungeon... And I need to use your microservice. And it's got no docs. I can't come to you and be like "Hey Mat, you should write some docs for this."
Mat Ryer
Yeah, this is true. You've found an immediate place where this doesn't apply.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] I should write the docs.
Mat Ryer
I'm not talking about docs, really...
Jerod Santo
Oh, okay.
Mat Ryer
I'm talking about like a design -- I'm talking about like some pre-designed thing, or some... Write a doc that explains something about the system.
Jerod Santo
Gotcha.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Which - you have the knowledge.
Jerod Santo
It's one of these laws that there's like lots of small fineprint.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. It changed over time.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. Well, you have to adjust it as the world advances. Okay, so... Not a bad idea.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Tiny little law. Adam, do you like this one? Write your own docs.
Adam Stacoviak
I think it's probably hard to enforce.
Jerod Santo
Wait, what kind of consequences are there if you ask somebody else to write some docs? Three nights in the dungeon?
Mat Ryer
No, no. It's basically decriminalized at this point.
Jerod Santo
Decriminalized... \[laughs\] So it's a misdemeanor.
Mat Ryer
Not even, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Not even that. You're just fined.
Mat Ryer
It's like jaywalking.
Jerod Santo
Okay. So everybody does it. So it's a worthless law.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Alright. What else you got?
Adam Stacoviak
It's mostly a request.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. \[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
It is, yeah. And that's all laws are really, isn't it? They're just requests that like "Please don't pop his head off..."
Adam Stacoviak
"If you do this, I'm going to have to do that."
Mat Ryer
Yes.
Adam Stacoviak
"And you don't want that."
Mat Ryer
It's a good idea to have laws written in code though, I think. \[unintelligible 00:28:00.02\] the idea. It's quite a good one.
Jerod Santo
You should try that.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. And -- alright, the laws of physics aren't exactly the same on this planet, by the way...
Jerod Santo
Mm-hm... Good.
Mat Ryer
\[00:28:11.23\] I know what you're thinking, Jerod; you're thinking laws of physics are probably identical to Earth. Why would they be? This Mat World is different.
Jerod Santo
Okay...
Mat Ryer
All the rain falls in one go. Like, just down, like, bang.
Jerod Santo
Just a single drop?
Mat Ryer
It's just an enormous smash. Everything.
Jerod Santo
That's awesome. Finally, it delivers.
Mat Ryer
None of this delivery in little bits and pieces, and taking hours...
Adam Stacoviak
Just one big, massive drop.
Jerod Santo
Like worldwide?
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Just bang.
Jerod Santo
Does everybody get hit at once? Are there holes in it?
Mat Ryer
Everybody's wearing pointy hats.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] How do they know? They've got really good weather people?
Mat Ryer
They just wear them all the time. You never know when it's coming.
Jerod Santo
Oh, okay. Just in case.
Mat Ryer
You can see it, but...
Jerod Santo
Is that a law? The pointy hat law?
Mat Ryer
No, but of course you're going to do it. Otherwise you have to try and dive through it. Like a reverse dive.
Jerod Santo
So if you don't have the hat on, could it kill you?
Mat Ryer
It probably could. You could certainly get a slapped, red back. Have you ever jumped into a pool and just landed on your belly on top of the water?
Jerod Santo
I have, yeah. It hurts.
Mat Ryer
Belly flop. Yeah.
Jerod Santo
This is on top of your head.
Mat Ryer
Smash. All the buildings are pointy...
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Okay, this has big ramifications.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. But you know, once it's done, you can go out for the day, do what you want.
Jerod Santo
Just one big drop.
Mat Ryer
It just comes down in one big slab.
Jerod Santo
Love it. Mat's World sounds fascinating.
Mat Ryer
Welcome. Have a coffee. This one's from Kenya, so you can -- this will actually teach you about the sort of rich experience of that country, and the rich culture... So have it. Enjoy. That's the Kenya one. Or I can offer you this cold blend from Brooklyn, New York. For half an hour you'll know how to look cool wearing a hat.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
This cold blend...
Jerod Santo
You've got some crazy podcasts in Mat World...
**Break**: \[00:30:10.11\]
Alright, Adam, do you want to take us to Adam World?
Mat Ryer
I'd love to go.
Adam Stacoviak
I don't even think I want to do any more of this stuff... \[laughter\] I'm done with this imagining stuff... I don't know if I'll be as cheeky as Mat, but I will take it to Adam World.
Jerod Santo
Let's hear it.
Mat Ryer
I'd love to go.
Adam Stacoviak
I really struggled, because I was between a couple of different worlds here... But I figured I'd stay stereotypical and take you to what I would call Adam World.
Jerod Santo
Okay, let's hear it. Silicon Valley.
Adam Stacoviak
So am I supposed to read this script that you shared with me, Jerod? Is that the rule?
Jerod Santo
Mat sent me the script. Should he read the script?
Adam Stacoviak
He didn't read the script.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, he sort of.
Mat Ryer
I kind of did.
Jerod Santo
He used it as an outline.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, okay.
Jerod Santo
You can read verbatim if you want, or you can do it like Mat did, or you can do whatever you want. It's your show.
Adam Stacoviak
I will do my best. Okay?
Jerod Santo
Okay. That's all we can ask for.
Mat Ryer
Please.
Jerod Santo
A lot of \[unintelligible 00:32:58.24\]
Adam Stacoviak
Welcome, gentlemen.
Jerod Santo
Thank you.
Adam Stacoviak
I didn't write that. Welcome, gentlemen, to Adam World. I hope you enjoy your time with us. Remember to visit the Silicon Valley Museum, and the food court, and try the Hooli Pied Piper burger today, and sample the delights of the uptick mineral water, which might reduce bedwetting. But first, can I introduce you to our favorite gadget, the most revolutionary compression algorithm ever that the world has ever seen?
Jerod Santo
Oh...
Adam Stacoviak
That's it. That's the script.
Jerod Santo
Middle out?
Adam Stacoviak
Middle... Middle something. I didn't name it. It was already named.
Jerod Santo
That's right. Alright, so --
Adam Stacoviak
The new gadget is a revolutionary compression algorithm.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
We could use one of those.
Adam Stacoviak
It remains unnamed. Like Voldemort. You can't say the name.
Mat Ryer
Right.
Adam Stacoviak
The new rule, new law is this: Everything is nothing, and nowhere, but also kind of everywhere.
Mat Ryer
Cloud.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. Compressed.
Mat Ryer
Compressed.
Adam Stacoviak
And the thing I'd love to change most about the world that I live in is I want to live -- this is heartfelt, okay? This is hard to even say...
Mat Ryer
Okay. You can do it. You can do it, mate...
Jerod Santo
You can say it.
Adam Stacoviak
I want to live in a world where everyone can watch Silicon Valley in peace and harmony...
Mat Ryer
Well, this is very touching.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay, I've said it. I've said it. That's it.
Jerod Santo
Wow... Wow.
Adam Stacoviak
That's it.
Jerod Santo
Wow.
Mat Ryer
I like it.
Jerod Santo
That's all I can say. Wow.
Adam Stacoviak
Thank you for listening.
Mat Ryer
I'd like to be on Adam's World. I've just started rewatching Silicon Valley, and it's so good.
Adam Stacoviak
I'm proud of you.
Mat Ryer
How many times have you seen it, Adam?
Adam Stacoviak
Uh, endless. It's constantly playing in my brain.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. So if you had that compression alg -- by the way, you can't name it because the name is so small that it can't be spoken by humans? Is it compressed that much?
Adam Stacoviak
They wanted to call it FTL.
Mat Ryer
That's great. That is great.
Adam Stacoviak
FTL.
Mat Ryer
Faster than light. Yeah?
Adam Stacoviak
Faster than light, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Or For the Loss.
Mat Ryer
It's lossless, though.
Jerod Santo
It's lossy.
Adam Stacoviak
For the Loss is good, too.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
But it was actually Faster Than Light. But I like FTL For The Loss as well.
Mat Ryer
Or Flossy. Well, so if you had that for real then, what would that -- I mean, because we did have a bit of a problem before recording this, where my hard drive is unnecessarily \[unintelligible 00:35:57.18\]
Adam Stacoviak
Well, that would have never happened, okay? Because based on the new rule, new law, everything is nothing and nowhere, but also kind of everywhere.
Jerod Santo
\[00:36:08.01\] I don't know what that means.
Adam Stacoviak
Well, everything is nothing, and it's nowhere, because it's just so small. But it's also kind of everywhere, because it's so small it can move so fast. So this problem Mat had with moving his data and all that disk space issue is that it just basically renders disk space obsolete, because it's infinite. It's just -- the thing that something becomes nothing, but also something and everywhere.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. That's cleared it up. Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
I've always found compression to be sort of bonkers, that you could just have a file and then do something and then it's a smaller file, and then do something else and put it back. It's amazing.
Adam Stacoviak
You know, sometimes I just uncompress and decompress things constantly, just to see if somewhere someone's pulling something over on me. \[laughter\]
Mat Ryer
Yeah, that's good. We should find out --
Adam Stacoviak
It's constantly compressing, recompress, compressing, recompress. It's back and forth. One day I'll know for sure if they're truly compressing those things, and then pulling them back out and they work again.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
We'll never know.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Or they're just saving the main file in a different folder and you don't notice.
Adam Stacoviak
And that's why we have the Silicon Valley Museum. If we didn't have this museum, these critical cultural icons in our world today would just be gone forever.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
You would never know why, or how.
Mat Ryer
I thought this was the Silicon Valley -- now we know where it is. It's in Adam World. But I thought when you meant Silicon Valley, I thought you meant like the actual computer area.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, yeah. Sorry, Mat. This is where you're sorely mistaken, man. This is the TV show.
Jerod Santo
You don't listen to the show enough, man. It's never the computer.
Adam Stacoviak
It's Silicon Valley, the TV show.
Jerod Santo
It's always the TV show.
Adam Stacoviak
Gotta keep it alive forever. It's rich in my blood, deep, deep, deep.
Jerod Santo
One time I tried to reference the actual geography of the Silicon Valley, and this guy dinged me anyways. He overruled it, and he just dinged it. He's like "Nope, that's the TV show." So... Good luck trying to talk about the geography.
Mat Ryer
Okay. No, forget it.
Jerod Santo
Not in Adam's world.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
Not in Adam's world.
Adam Stacoviak
Now, I don't know about you, but I'm just sick and tired of...
Jerod Santo
Is he going to start crying again?
Adam Stacoviak
It's tough to talk about, okay...? \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
He's getting choked up...
Adam Stacoviak
I've got some friends, okay...? They're still a little scarred... They were trying to watch Silicon Valley --
Jerod Santo
That was too close to home...
Adam Stacoviak
...and some people came in the house, started throwing some things, okay? They were throwing things. It was not cool. No peace, no harmony... Trying to watch Silicon Valley.
Mat Ryer
So everyone is allowed to watch it... And that is the law.
Adam Stacoviak
No, no, that's not the law. This is the law.
Jerod Santo
Oh, that's the change.
Adam Stacoviak
If you want everyone who wants to watch it, you can do so in peace and harmony. Now, there was this cult, this uprising trying to abolish and get rid of and erase Silicon Valley culture and everything that this TV show stands for. And people were trying. They were on eBay, and they were trying to get the TV show.
Mat Ryer
\[00:39:51.14\] Trying to buy it?
Jerod Santo
Is that where it is?
Adam Stacoviak
HBO have revolted, there was insiders... It was a mess, okay? It was a mess. And then whenever you watched Silicon Valley the TV show, there was never any peace and never any harmony. And so the new rule is this, is that you have to abide by peace and harmony. You cannot disrupt. They will watch Silicon Valley forever if they want to.
Jerod Santo
It sounds like the Streisand effect.
Adam Stacoviak
I'm getting a little worked up now. Now, I was sad for a second there, but now I'm mad.
Jerod Santo
Well, maybe you should come to Jerod's world.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, Adam, it sounds like you've made a world that's really just tormenting you. Pop in the rocket. Let's go to Jerod world. Would you like an enormous pretzel?
Jerod Santo
Welcome, gentlemen, to Jerod world.
Mat Ryer
Oh, hello. Yay...!
Jerod Santo
I hope you do enjoy your time with us... Remember to visit the Lou, which is our Lou Gehrig-themed restaurant.
Mat Ryer
\[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
And when you're there, be sure to order the number two, which is the best chili nachos, smothered in baked beans.
Mat Ryer
Lovely.
Jerod Santo
And then of course, when you're all finished, you can wash it down with our world-famous cocktail. You're going to love this cocktail, Mat. It's an homage to Allen Iverson and his mechanical horse named TinTin. Sorry, this is too good. \[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
That is so good.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. You know Allen Iverson, the famous basketball player here in the United States?
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Well, did you know he had a mechanical horse?
Mat Ryer
Was it called TinTin?
Jerod Santo
Yeah. Iverson's mechanical TinTin. We call the drink IverMecTin.
Mat Ryer
Nice.
Does it come in a tin-tin?
Jerod Santo
Yes.
Mat Ryer
Like a Trojan horse...
Jerod Santo
And it'll finish you off nicely after that number two.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah. It sounds big, that number two, as well.
Jerod Santo
It is big.
Mat Ryer
It sounds really big.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. You almost can't finish it in one sitting.
Mat Ryer
Right, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Now, that's just our fine cuisines. But we also have amazing new gadgets...
Mat Ryer
Oh, I'd love to hear about your gadget. Is it better than a levitating chair or a sleepy nighttime car?
Jerod Santo
Yes, I think it might be more useful than a really good Waymo.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah?
Jerod Santo
This is called the dis-incinerator. And it does exactly what it sounds like. It's the opposite of an incinerator. It's so useful. So if you have a great campfire and you want to do it again... Same wood. Just disincinerate it. California wildfires? No need to rebuild your home. Just disincinerate your home. Right back to good as new.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Or the Amazon forest ravaged by loggers? First, you have to incinerate the logs...
Mat Ryer
Right.
Jerod Santo
...and then let's get those trees back in the ground with the disincinerator.
Mat Ryer
Right...
Jerod Santo
I think you get the point.
Mat Ryer
This is very good. And grandma?
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] That's right. Oh, yes... The ultimate of disincinerating values is your loved ones.
Mat Ryer
Bring them back.
Jerod Santo
As long as they don't choose traditional burial, we can disincinerate them, too.
Mat Ryer
This is exciting, because I sometimes burn things and then think afterwards "I shouldn't have burned that."
Jerod Santo
I think we all do that from time to time, don't we?
Mat Ryer
It happens. Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Pretty good gadget.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. This is a good gadget.
Jerod Santo
Thinking outside the box, you know? Not just renaming existing vehicles, but just brand new things.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Of course, there are some people who would not like this disincinerator. Serial killers...
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah... It's annoying for them.
Jerod Santo
Or people with really mean grandmas...
Mat Ryer
Some grandmas are horrible.
Jerod Santo
\[00:43:57.21\] Yeah. And you just want to leave them as they are, as they lay, or as they lie. Liars, they are. But for everybody else, there's the disincinerator.
Mat Ryer
This is it, yeah.
Jerod Santo
This is my gadget. I've got nothing else there. That's how Jerod's World works.
Mat Ryer
I once made a pizza, and I didn't really know what I was doing, so I sort of put it under the grill, which is the broil thing in the U.S, I think... You know, where t's just got the heat on the top...
Jerod Santo
Sure.
Mat Ryer
And I thought "That's kind of like a pizza oven", but I was essentially just grilling, or toasting a pizza, a frozen pizza. And anyway, to cut a long story short, it was on fire. It was very quickly on fire.
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
And I knew it was a spicy pizza, but I don't think it was meant to be on fire. And certainly, when I checked the box, it said nothing about that. If anything, it implied it wouldn't be on fire. Like, it didn't say it explicitly, but yeah, you just can read between the lines.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, you can't return it at that point, unless you had a disincinerator. Now, in that case, I think it pays for itself.
Mat Ryer
You can just take cooking too far and then just rewind it, basically.
Jerod Santo
You can get yourself a disincinerator for four easy payments of $29.99, and one really hard payment. So... Just look out for that one.
Mat Ryer
Same amount, but you have to pay in pennies.
Jerod Santo
That's right. You know, your check's going to get lost in the mail, your bank account's going to bounce... Something's going to go wrong on that last one.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Put the wrong number in. When you try to put your destination bank account number, you put it all in correctly, but you got something wrong in the address, so it'll just slow you down. \[unintelligible 00:45:36.07\] the system has been flagged, but it's bank holiday. It's a long weekend.
Jerod Santo
Shout-out to Mitch Hedberg. That's an old Mitch Hedberg gag that he does quite a bit better than I do... And if I can disincinerate him, I certainly would. Alright, now, there are some new rules here in Jerod world.
Mat Ryer
Uh-oh...
Jerod Santo
We don't live after the same rules that you all live by.
Mat Ryer
This is going to be dark... This is going to make Adam cry.
Adam Stacoviak
\[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
Here's what we're going to do. We're going to return to champions. We're going to bring back champions. In Jerod world we do not wage war by killing millions of young men, women, innocent children. All disputes are resolved by champions. Just like we used to do in the neighborhood growing up. You know, my dad can beat up your dad, that kind of a thing. Or the old school David versus Goliath - send out your best, we send out our best, and whoever wins, wins the dispute.
Mat Ryer
Is David the best one? Because that statue of him, he's got no arms. Have you seen it? In Italy? If that's the best they had...
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Yeah. I think Michelangelo screwed that part up. Didn't he? Or is that --
Mat Ryer
And he didn't have any clothes. He's got his willy out. He can't go to battle --
Jerod Santo
All he needed was five smooth stones, I guess, but not any --
Mat Ryer
He just had two. \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
You must've read a different account. So yes, this is the old champions. Here's how it would work. Now, I got practical here. I want to actually explain this, because you can't just come out and say whoever's champion wins, wins. I still do not want there to be murder. Okay? So there's no -- all wars now are done this way instead. And it is based on champions. How it works is each disputing group will pick their contest. Okay? It could be MMA, it could be Wii Sports, chess, vibe-coding, whatever.
Mat Ryer
Right.
Jerod Santo
There's nine events, and the smallest population picks first, because they need a little help.
Mat Ryer
Right.
Jerod Santo
And then each contest has a new champion. So you name, "Here's our vibe-coding champion. Here's our chess champion." And they battle it out. First one to five wins the dispute. Here's the kicker though... Each champion that loses is disqualified from ever being a champion in that category ever again, and so choose wisely. What do you think? This would work, right?
Mat Ryer
I mean, I think we should do this just as a TV show.
Jerod Santo
I think we should.
Mat Ryer
\[00:48:02.07\] Yeah.
Jerod Santo
It's kind of like the Olympics, but higher stakes, and more categories.
Mat Ryer
And more random categories.
Adam Stacoviak
What are the rules in that last part again? How does that go?
Jerod Santo
Well, you've got nine... So let's say it's a United States versus Great Britain, for instance.
Mat Ryer
Oh, come on. That'd never happen.
Jerod Santo
I know it wouldn't, but just for giggles.
Mat Ryer
Hilarious.
Jerod Santo
Yes... So we would pick a -- we have a bigger population, so they would pick a category, probably cricket...
Mat Ryer
Could be.
Jerod Santo
Probably a surefire win for them. I mean...
Mat Ryer
It could be the Beatles, and then we put Paul McCartney in...
Jerod Santo
It could be. Yeah, if he's still kicking... We'd put Willie Nelson against him, see what happens...
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Fair enough.
Jerod Santo
But they would pick cricket, we don't have any cricket players... We might just give them that one. We're like "Fine, whatever. You win that category." And then we would pick a category, and you could name pretty much any other game of skill. And then we would have more people on that one. And then they would pick one...
Mat Ryer
You say burgers, and we're like "We'll let them just have that one."
Jerod Santo
Exactly. \[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
Pick your battles...
Jerod Santo
Apple pie, or a pie baking contest... Yeah, so food, we pretty much win. But it could be like Fortnite... I'm sure there's probably some really good Fortnite players over there. Curling...
Mat Ryer
Yeah, even minesweeper.
Jerod Santo
Mnesweeper... Yeah, there's whole kinds of e-sports that can move into this. And then whoever wins is best of five. So you've got nine different events... So it can go four to four, all the way down, and whoever wins the last one wins the dispute. So whatever we're disputing about, be it land, or money, or how many u's to put in the word favorite - I'm looking for zero - we win, or they win. And that's it. The dispute's over. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It's over.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. I think everyone could get behind that. It'd be like "Okay, fair enough... We're all going to \[unintelligible 00:49:54.02\]
Jerod Santo
It'd be great entertainment, too. They're already trying to entertain us with these monstrosities, right? They're like showing us war, and stuff...
Mat Ryer
Yeah, it's horrible.
Jerod Santo
How about like something fun?
Mat Ryer
Yeah. I like this idea.
Adam Stacoviak
We have to get the violent people to really buy into this idea. I don't think it's the --
Jerod Santo
Well, it's Jerod World, so I just dictate it. Like, this is just how the world works.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, okay. Yeah, that's true.
Jerod Santo
You have to. Yeah.
Mat Ryer
This is a good one. It puts my docs one into sharp perspective, doesn't it? That one really seems unimportant now.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Yeah. Yeah, it sure does.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
In fact, if you had a dispute over docs - well, we would just champion it, you know?
Adam Stacoviak
And I think in this world it's probably pretty easy to watch Silicon Valley the TV show in peace and harmony.
Jerod Santo
I think yeah, you might exist happily in this world, Adam.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. It's not -- no need for tears. No need for sessions, and groups, and...
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
...fellow Silicon Valley people to cry with.
Mat Ryer
Well, it's the AI best friend, it's helping you through it.
Adam Stacoviak
It's a thing of the past... What a beautiful world, Jerod...
Jerod Santo
So I've described to you guys my gadget, which is the disincinerator. I've told you my new rule, which is a return to champions and skill-based competition to settle disputes... My thing I would like to change - and Mat, you did say this does not include physics. I can just do whatever I want, right?
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Anything you want, mate. Don't forget, I have the big rain that all comes down in one go.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. That was epic. I might adopt that. Can I adopt some of your stuff? Well, let me just go a little bit bigger than that even, and say everything that tastes good - ice cream, Snickers, the extra large number two from Lose... They're all actually good for you.
Mat Ryer
Right.
Jerod Santo
And everything that tastes bad - cucumbers, or cucumbers gone bad a.k.a. pickles, avocados... You know gross stuff - they're actually bad for you.
Mat Ryer
Right.
Jerod Santo
So this is not a creative one, because I think a lot of people would like this... But it really is going to bring people into Jerod World. Because wouldn't it be amazing if the best things, that tasted the best to you, actually were the best for you? Wouldn't that just be epic?
Mat Ryer
\[00:52:02.10\] Yeah, it would be epic. I think a lot of people would be happy with that, and I don't want to take anything away from them... But just for me, just only speaking just for me personally, I don't really like cakes, and that... And the stuff I like is good for you stuff. Like, I love avocado. Cucumber? Oh yes, please. Pickled. Hello?
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Well, you must be pretty healthy then.
Mat Ryer
I think I am, but not deliberately.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. Just because you like the taste of good things.
Mat Ryer
I think by accident. Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Well, here's the thing - I didn't describe how it works especially. I was naming things that I think taste good or bad. But it's completely subjective. So whatever you think tastes good is good for you.
Mat Ryer
Ah, here we go.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. So I win everybody with that, right? Like, who's going to not want that?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, I think so.
Jerod Santo
It's kind of like what they did in The Matrix. They made steak taste so good that you just wanted to go red pill.
Adam Stacoviak
So this is a personal preference thing. This is not a "I make your food taste bad, you make my food taste whatever."
Jerod Santo
Whatever tastes good is good for you. And that's you personally.
Mat Ryer
So all your favorite stuff that's guilty pleasure.
Jerod Santo
Everything that's good is good.
Adam Stacoviak
So let's say I have a bag of Swedish fish.
Jerod Santo
Swedish?
Adam Stacoviak
Swedish, Swedish fish... Known to have Red 40 in it.
Jerod Santo
Okay...
Mat Ryer
What the heck is Red 40?
Adam Stacoviak
Let me tell you about Red 40...
Mat Ryer
Tell me about it, man...
Adam Stacoviak
What is Red 40? Let's see how biased this is. This is DeepSeek R1.
Jerod Santo
It's going to tell you what China \[unintelligible 00:53:39.26\] Red 40 is.
Adam Stacoviak
What is Red 40? Thinking... Red 40, also known as Allura Red AC, is a synthetic red dye widely used in food, beverages, cosmetics and pharmaceuticals.
Mat Ryer
Right.
Jerod Santo
Okay.
Mat Ryer
Okay. And you like that, don't you?
Adam Stacoviak
It is known to have health concerns, hyperactivity in children \[unintelligible 00:54:01.29\] in some studies to electric reactions... And some of the stuff, I don't know. Whatever.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Anyways --
Jerod Santo
It's bad for you.
Adam Stacoviak
It's approved in the US, not apprroved everywhere else.
Jerod Santo
Not in Jerod World... Not in Swedish fish, and Jerod World.
Mat Ryer
Well, it's good for you in your world, isn't it, Jerod?
Jerod Santo
That's right. I mean, this is just how it works.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. Well, I mean, the point is you've got Swedish fish, Red 40... I think it tastes good. They're pretty solid.
Jerod Santo
I've never had them.
Adam Stacoviak
In Jerod world they don't taste good? Or is it up to me for them to taste good?
Jerod Santo
If it tastes bad to you, it's bad for you. It's a simple equation. If it tastes good to you, it's good for you.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. So your Swedish fish would be good for you. The doctor would be like "You make sure you're getting enough Swedish fish... You get that Red 40. You need that Red 40."
Jerod Santo
That's right.
Adam Stacoviak
So you're telling me it tastes good to me, good for me, no matter what.
Jerod Santo
Exactly. I mean, this is a win, win, win. There's no losing here. I mean, you would just want this real change. This is why I changed it.
Adam Stacoviak
So let's say you've got somebody who's like really down with broccoli.
Jerod Santo
They're down with it.
Adam Stacoviak
They're down with the broccoli.
Jerod Santo
They love it. So good for them.
Adam Stacoviak
In the past they'd say things like "I wuv you, broccoli. I wuv you, broccoli."
Jerod Santo
Okay, so they have a speech impediment kind of a thing?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Okay.
Adam Stacoviak
No... \[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
Like a children cartoon.
Adam Stacoviak
This is a dated -- that was a dated caricature of the person. That was when they were seven.
Jerod Santo
I didn't know you dated \[unintelligible 00:55:35.14\]
Adam Stacoviak
Maybe four, or three.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
I wuv you, bwoccoli.
Jerod Santo
Go ahead, do it again. He wants to do it again. Go ahead...
Adam Stacoviak
I love you, broccoli... You taste like candy.
Jerod Santo
Okay.
Adam Stacoviak
So if you love broccoli, it tastes like candy - good for you. No matter what.
Jerod Santo
It's good for you. It's not a complicated algorithm. There's no holes in this algorithm. You can't poke a hole in it. Alright, so who's moving where? That's what we've gotta know. Who's moving where? Now, I kind of want this -- I think my world's the best, but I really do want Mat's all the rain at one moment thing. So I'm kind of on the fence there..
Adam Stacoviak
\[00:56:18.21\] And you know you want people watching Silicon Valley in peace and harmony, man.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] I'm not against that.
Adam Stacoviak
You know that's your goal...
Jerod Santo
That's not my goal in life, but I do want them to have that freedom. So yeah. I mean, all these worlds sound pretty good. What I'm kind of bummed about is we don't have any musical accompaniment for any of this. Mat, can you sing -- how about theme songs? I mean, now you know our worlds, you've heard everything about Mat World, you've heard about Adam World...
Adam Stacoviak
Merge the worlds via song, brother.
Jerod Santo
...everything about Jerod World... Maybe a ditty for each, or one that encompasses all three... Whatever you're thinking here. Get that guitar out.
Mat Ryer
Right, let's do it. Let's go on a trip around this weird solar system.
\[00:57:02.01\]
*Won't you come with me, please... On a big, big journey... We'ree gonna make sure you put your own mask on first, before you help anybody... You can sit on a floating sofa... You can ride a sleepy car... If you want to write docs, though - you're the only one who has to do it... Okay... Because all the rain falls in one go... Everybody wears pointy hats... And all the cars are pointy, and all the buildings are also pointy... Why? Why? Well, it's because because... Because of the rain...!*
*Do you like Silicon Valley...? If you do, you're going to like this place. You can watch it anytime you like, in peace and harmony... If you don't like it though, I don't know what happens to you... I assume that it's not great, maybe you'll get shunned...*
*Or we can go to Jerod World now... Jerod World... Where all things you eat that are nice, that means they're good for you... Like, you could eat a bad, bad sandwich, but you like it anyway... Well, I've got news for you. Were you paying attention? That sandwich is now good for you. You're gonna like Jerod World... And if you don't, just get in the rocket, we'll take you to space, take you back home... Would you like a little packet of pretzels...? In the event of an emergency, please put your own mask on before helping anyone else...*
Jerod Santo
Very nice. Very nice. Ooph...
Mat Ryer
\[01:00:07.00\] Ooph indeed. That's the sort of reaction you look for after a song.
Adam Stacoviak
Not one mention of compression. Sad.
Mat Ryer
Pardon?
Adam Stacoviak
Not one mention of compression, man.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah. Well, it was in there...
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] You're so disappointed. You might start crying again.
Mat Ryer
No, it was in there, between all the words.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, he compressed it.
Mat Ryer
Oh, I sure did.
Adam Stacoviak
This is not what we call peace and harmony.
Mat Ryer
I got out of that so good... I got out of that... Because of the compression thing.
Jerod Santo
I think Mat really highlighted his points more than ours. Don't you think, Adam?
Adam Stacoviak
He did. He was favoring his pointed hats, and the pointed cars...
Jerod Santo
He even brought back the little pretzels... It's like, none of us were talking about pretzels but Mat.
Adam Stacoviak
I don't know about you, but when he said --
Jerod Santo
I mean, no mention of a disincinerator at all... Coolest gadget of the three.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. I forgot about it. I was trying to remember that stuff, but... What I should have done is written it down.
Jerod Santo
That would have been good. We gave you plenty of time, you know? I mean, Adam cried for a good 45 seconds.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I know. But that was just so touching. It was like watching a Morgan Freeman film. At the end, where he does a long speech, he tells you all about something...
Jerod Santo
Which one's that?
Mat Ryer
All of them. It's like "I'm Morgan Freeman, and I'm going to tell you now about this moral of the story." That sort of thing.
Jerod Santo
Right.
Mat Ryer
Is that right?
Jerod Santo
What's probably your favorite Morgan Freeman movie?
Mat Ryer
I like that one where he's God. Bruce Almighty. That's a good one.
Adam Stacoviak
Such a short role, though.
Mat Ryer
God...
Jerod Santo
Yeah, but important.
Adam Stacoviak
I mean, he wasn't really in the film a lot.
Jerod Santo
Well, you know...
Mat Ryer
Not bad. He only really did his thing for a week there, didn't he? And it took him a week to build all the Universe and all the people and everything.
Jerod Santo
That's right.
Adam Stacoviak
That's right.
Mat Ryer
Bruce Almighty, on the other hand, had to do loads of work, and he had to keep his main job.
Adam Stacoviak
A lot of emails...
Jerod Santo
A lot of emails.
Mat Ryer
Yes.
Jerod Santo
I think that movie pales in comparison to Shawshank Redemption, which is one of the best movies of all time.
Mat Ryer
That's probably true. It's often in the lists of top movies.
Jerod Santo
It is, because it's just that good.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, and it really is good too, so... It's fair enough.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. Sometimes you'll have a popular album and you're like "Yeah, I don't really like that band, because everybody else likes them." Like, of course, you're going to pick Godfather 2, you know?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, Shawshank really is the --
Jerod Santo
But it's like, Shawshank is just so good you can't even get mad at people.
Adam Stacoviak
\[unintelligible 01:02:24.12\] I think because it's so long.
Jerod Santo
Shawshank's long?
Adam Stacoviak
It's a pretty long movie. It's not a short movie.
Jerod Santo
No.
Adam Stacoviak
It's not a three-hour movie, but it's long.
Mat Ryer
I heard it was a flop when it first came out, and people were like "Meh." And then it just grew and grew. It was one of those. It wasn't like a big opening weekend. Not like, you know, \[unintelligible 01:02:42.15\] the Fast and the Furious cars.
Jerod Santo
Right.
Mat Ryer
Or those angry cars. You know, Marvel.
Jerod Santo
Right.
Mat Ryer
But Shawshank is great.
Jerod Santo
Well, I think that Shawshank can probably thank TBS, or perhaps TNT - which might be the same company, I don't even know - because its rise to fame really was over like the course of 10 to 15 years when it was just on... Like, TBS on a Saturday afternoon; probably every Saturday or Sunday, for years. And it gave an entire generation an opportunity to watch it, and watch it over and over again, and just fall in love with it. Because yeah, it wasn't like it changed the world when it was in theaters, or anything.
Mat Ryer
But it's classic. And if you look at those lists, which I sometimes do, and I'm like "I'm going to start at the top film of all time", which is usually a Godfather or two...
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
...and go down the list until I haven't seen one, and then that's the one I have to then watch. And honestly, they really are all good. That is true. When they're in the top 50 films of all time or whatever, they're probably all pretty good films.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, they're all really stinking good.
Mat Ryer
And if you're the guy in the room going "Oh, I don't like that one, because --", you're probably wrong.
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
Yeah...
Jerod Santo
\[01:04:04.15\] But let me do that for a second. Okay, so Citizen Kane, though. That one's well-known, top number one, and that's the one I'm always like "Yeah, I've seen it, but I wouldn't go back and watch it." I appreciate it for its quality, whatever, whatever. But I'd watch Shawshank a hundred times before I'd watch Citizen Kane again. Maybe just because it's that old of a movie. I mean, it was very early on... But it's always there, and I don't think it doesn't deserve it, I just feel like I could take it or leave it myself. So there. There, I'm that guy, you know?
Adam Stacoviak
"It sucks..."
Mat Ryer
No, but I'm that guy with Citizen Kane as well.
Jerod Santo
Okay, cool.
Mat Ryer
But we're probably wrong.
Jerod Santo
We probably are. But we're at least wrong together, you know?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, exactly. And that's why I come on this podcast.
Jerod Santo
That's right. We can watch Shawshank in peace and harmony.
Mat Ryer
\[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
One would pray.
Jerod Santo
Alright, what else? Should we hard segue into a different topic? Should we say goodbye? Should we reinvent new worlds beyond?
Adam Stacoviak
I just want to mention one thing that was not really talked about much.
Jerod Santo
Okay.
Adam Stacoviak
Uptick mineral water.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah.
Jerod Santo
I don't know what that is.
Adam Stacoviak
Uptick. You drink this mineral water and not only do you get a physical uptick, you get a website traffic boost as well.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, this is good.
Adam Stacoviak
Uptick mineral water. Brings you growth.
Mat Ryer
Makes your internet fast.
Adam Stacoviak
Well, I mean, you know... It helps you get the people to buy your thing. Uptick.
Mat Ryer
It does a lot of things, this Uptick. Is it natural? Does it come out of a spring?
Adam Stacoviak
It's a mineral water.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Best thing for you.
Jerod Santo
Not if you don't like the taste of it...
Adam Stacoviak
Some would call it amazing. Some would call it amazing. Honestly.
Mat Ryer
I would.
Adam Stacoviak
Mineral water that gives you a physical and a digital uptick.
Mat Ryer
Uptick...
Jerod Santo
Who doesn't want an uptick?
Mat Ryer
Who doesn't, indeed?
Adam Stacoviak
You know what, I live daily for an uptick.
Mat Ryer
Can you see this gadget though I have in real life?
Jerod Santo
Oh, wow. What is this? So there's like two lights around your neck?
Adam Stacoviak
Those are personal headlights.
Mat Ryer
Kind of like that, yeah.
Jerod Santo
So you have -- what is this, Mat?
Mat Ryer
This is kind of like personal headlights. It's sort of joking, but --
Jerod Santo
Yeah, it does look like that.
Mat Ryer
...if you're reading a book, you wear this light kind of collar. There's a sort of collar to it.
Jerod Santo
It looks like the pillow you'd put on on an airplane.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Pop it around your neck, put your own mask on before helping anyone else's... Put your own headlights on before helping your friends, or your children... And then you can read, because there's more light on you.
Jerod Santo
It shines light on your book.
Adam Stacoviak
What if you just had instead, right here, Mat - see this part of my neck?
Jerod Santo
Oh yeah, face it back into you.
Adam Stacoviak
What if you just had these -- they were magnets. Those same lights, and they would call it Power Over Skin.
Jerod Santo
P.O.S.
Adam Stacoviak
Right? Your skin would electronically transmit the power... You click the lights to your neck. Power via your heartbeat, and boom. Light.
Jerod Santo
Also, would they pulse?
Adam Stacoviak
I don't know if they would pulse. Maybe they have different -- you know, your body should provide the power at that point, you know? But they can use the power to blink, or to go blue or green, or to be this... I'm thinking maybe like 3600 Kelvin right now, roughly...
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
4700, maybe.
Mat Ryer
I mean, I wish you could do that. I wish you could experiment more with stuff in your body. Like "Yeah, I've gone for LEDs", or extra arms.
Adam Stacoviak
Imagine that. Gen 2 of that.
Jerod Santo
\[01:07:53.10\] Extra arms?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, imagine an extra arm coming out of your side.
Jerod Santo
Ouch...
Mat Ryer
Here's a weird thing, because -- well, imagine picking something up with it now. You kind of know how that would feel. That's my theory.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, like an arm.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, but imagine -- imagine it, you've got an arm coming out of your side.
Jerod Santo
Oh, I am. You keep saying that like I'm not imagining it, but I am.
Mat Ryer
Okay, you are. Right, good. I just can't tell. I can't tell what you're imagining.
Jerod Santo
I'm with you.
Mat Ryer
I just can't tell what you're imagining or not.
Jerod Santo
Well, I'm wondering, could you feel when the power over your skin -- like, would you feel the electricity running through your veins?
Adam Stacoviak
Imperceptible.
Jerod Santo
Oh, wow.
Adam Stacoviak
The reason why is you're already -- do you feel it now? You're already electrical.
Jerod Santo
I'm carbon-based.
Adam Stacoviak
Or your nerves... Touch your fingertips. That's an electrical pulse.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I do feel that, actually.
Adam Stacoviak
That's electricity inside your body. Low voltage, baby.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, but, I mean, you're talking like lighting up a light bulb, dude.
Adam Stacoviak
A light bulb - that's low voltage. That's five volts or less, man. You don't feel that.
Jerod Santo
Have you ever peed on an electric fence?
Adam Stacoviak
No, because they say don't do that. In my world, one of the laws that I didn't have to mention was that. You don't pee on the electric fence. You just don't do it.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
There's a song about it, too. Did you hear the song?
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the song about not peeing on the electric fence.
Adam Stacoviak
Don't pee...
Jerod Santo
Mat, how's that one go again?
Adam Stacoviak
Go ahead, Mat. Give us a rendition of the "Don't pee on the electric fence."
Jerod Santo
There we go.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, yeah, I got it.
Jerod Santo
Okay, good.
Mat Ryer
I wonder what genre this is going to be.
Jerod Santo
Uh, nursery rhyme.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, kind of like a kid's song, in a way.
Jerod Santo
Very happy.
Adam Stacoviak
Very happy. Too fast. Too fast. Yeah, that's a good pace. No rush. You're in no rush to pee on that fence.
\[01:09:49.22\]
*Hey, when you're going out for a walk...*
A little too fast.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
\[01:09:51.10\]
*There's something I've gotta tell you, let's have a talk... Because if you need, to go, there's something you should know... Don't go on that electric fence.*
*I did it once and not again, I'm electric now and then... I couldn't even really believe how it made me feel. Yeah, I did it, I've done it again, kids. Oh, man, it hurts. It stings. Oh yeah, it burns. It stings.*
Adam Stacoviak
It hurts. It burns. It stings.
Jerod Santo
So is the idea there that you actually peed on it while you were singing the song even? Like mid-song.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. The song's going. You're doing it to show them what not to do.
Adam Stacoviak
"Oh, I did it again...!"
Jerod Santo
That's why he sped up, because he just...
Adam Stacoviak
It hurts, it burns, it stings.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
That's gonna be a classic.
Adam Stacoviak
That's good stuff, man. And you had your headlights on, your personal headlights.
Jerod Santo
Now, Mat, when you wear those on the airplane, can you see to the very bottom, and get that very last little pretzel? Is that what those are for?
Mat Ryer
You can take these on an airplane...
Jerod Santo
Get down there in the bottom of the bag.
Mat Ryer
But the problem is, when they turn all the lights off, everyone goes to sleepy time... Then you've got your lights on. It's really annoying for everyone.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, you've got to say sorry.
Adam Stacoviak
Is there a dim mode maybe? You know, where it's like less bright?
Mat Ryer
Oh yeah, there's more bright... There's like three levels.
Adam Stacoviak
Intermittent.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. It's like a little low mode. That's what you do with it.
Adam Stacoviak
Three modes. Yeah, that low mode's actually kind of high. I think we need to go a little lower with that. Do they measure that in nits?
Mat Ryer
I don't, because that's what we call head lice. And just as a unit for measurement, it went out of fashion years ago.
Adam Stacoviak
What do you measure it in then?
Jerod Santo
Nitwits.
Mat Ryer
We just -- we still use inches.
Jerod Santo
Do you?
Mat Ryer
Oh, for light -- not for light, no. Just like squinting.
Adam Stacoviak
Lumens? What's the lumen count on that?
Mat Ryer
No, it's like if it's a big squint, you know it's bright.
Jerod Santo
How many inches is that light?
Mat Ryer
If it's like "Oh, what are you doing? Turn that off", then you know it's really bright.
Adam Stacoviak
So it's more or less squints?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, it's squints.
Adam Stacoviak
It's a medium squint light...
Mat Ryer
Yeah. You can get candles that are a thousand squints.
Adam Stacoviak
Well, listeners, I'm so glad you tuned in today.
Mat Ryer
Me too, listeners.
Jerod Santo
I think we all learned something.
Adam Stacoviak
This was a really interesting Changelog & Friends, I'm telling you. I just don't even know where we're going with this.
I'm loving the guitar picking as we outro this... Like, as if it's an undercurrent or an undertone, so to speak, to these words I'm speaking... Well, thank you, friends... Loved ones... Choose your world wisely, and we'll see you in Zulip. Bye, friends.
Jerod Santo
Bye, friends.
