It's a peccadillo circus (Friends)
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
1hr 17min Jan 10, 2025
Mat Ryer is back! He plays the piano, we tell each other truths/lies, we pay homage to the 8” floppy disk, Mat accepts an open source medal, and so much more. It’s a real circus. MatGPT!
Changelog++ members get a bonus 11 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!
Sponsors:
- Sentry – Use the code
CHANGELOGwhen you sign up to get $100 off the team plan. - Notion – Notion is a place where any team can write, plan, organize, and rediscover the joy of play. It’s a workspace designed not just for making progress, but getting inspired. Notion is for everyone — whether you’re a Fortune 500 company or freelance designer, starting a new startup or a student juggling classes and clubs.
- DeleteMe – Text
CHANGELOGto 64000 to join DeleteMe. They make it quick, easy, and safe to remove your personal data online.
Featuring:
- Mat Ryer – GitHub, LinkedIn, Bluesky, X
- Jerod Santo – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, X
- Adam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, X
Show Notes:
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!
Jerod Santo
Well, Mat is back... But with no guitar.
Mat Ryer
No. No, I thought I'd switch things up a little bit... And what I've done is I've brought my piano. Look.
Jerod Santo
Love it. I didn't know -- actually, I did know that you played piano, because I think you've sent me a few piano tunes throughout the days... But I kind of forgot.
Mat Ryer
I know. I'm better on the piano than -- I can't really play the guitar, to be honest.
Jerod Santo
Well, you fooled us...
Mat Ryer
Yeah. I just learned some tricks... But you don't need to learn how to play. It's like coding. You don't have to learn how to code. You just have to learn a few tricks. Like for the interview.
Jerod Santo
That's right.
Adam Stacoviak
That's true.
Mat Ryer
You just have to trick the interviewer that you know how to code.
Adam Stacoviak
I've been an imposter for a very long, very long time...
Jerod Santo
Right. You can't code, but you can LeetCode. That's all you need.
Adam Stacoviak
Yes.
Mat Ryer
I mean, genuinely though, we are seeing an uptick of people using ChatGPT in interviews.
Jerod Santo
Oh, really?
Mat Ryer
Yeah. What do you do? What's your stance on that? Would you allow that, or no?
Jerod Santo
That's a good question, because to a certain extent it's like "Well, I want to know how much you know about this craft... But also, I want to know what you can do. And let's be honest, if you're going to be doing, you're going to be using some assistance."
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
And so why not just use the assistance while you're doing the interview? I guess I would leave it up to the interviewer. What would you do, Mat?
Mat Ryer
Well, I'm with you. I think they are part of the tool chain that we have... So use it. I mean, are we really interviewing people to find out what they know in their brain now, or what they can do, like what they're able to produce?
Jerod Santo
Right.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I think it depends on what you want.
Adam Stacoviak
He just repeated exactly what you said, Jerod...
Jerod Santo
He did. He made me feel smart by just saying it back to me. Is that a trick of yours?
Mat Ryer
Well, I say it in a British accent, that's what makes it sound smart.
Jerod Santo
It makes it sound better. It's like he one-ups me by just saying it back with his accent. Not fair, Mat...
Adam Stacoviak
How about this idea, okay?
Jerod Santo
Okay...
Adam Stacoviak
We just add a flag to people's column. Like, I'm interviewing Mat. Mat is AI assisted. Cool. That's it.
Mat Ryer
Right. Just be honest about it.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. I'm actually quite cool with being AI-assisted. I'm not cool with just AI. Like, if you're interviewing an AI... Come on. Come on, Meta.
Jerod Santo
You don't want to be replaced. You want to be assisted.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. I mean, I'm a humanist, man. Okay?
Jerod Santo
See, I feel like you're joining my team over here, because I've been saying this for a while...
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, AI-assisted is the way to be.
Jerod Santo
I'm happy to have you. I think AI-powered --
Adam Stacoviak
"I'm happy to have you..." \[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
I think human plus AI equals better, but AI plus AI equals disaster.
Adam Stacoviak
For now... I've gotta say for now. I've gotta say for now.
Mat Ryer
Some people are avoiding using AI ethically, because they're not happy with the copyright that was all stolen.
Jerod Santo
Right, right, right.
Mat Ryer
So they're sort of opting out of it from an ethical point of view. And they really are kind of giving themselves a disadvantage... All credit to them for it, really, for that... But yeah, if your mission is to just get stuff done... Yeah, AI-assisted. I'm in. It's not very popular to say that, you know?
Adam Stacoviak
Well, let me -- if AI or the LLM, this chat is the evolution of what we had, which compares well to Google... Have you had an issue with people googling things? No, you have not. It's actually expected.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Now. But in the beginning, people said "You're not allowed to use Google. You've got to do this." And then some places -- I think some places still do that. It's like the whiteboard interview.
Adam Stacoviak
This is interview process only though, right? You're thinking interview process only?
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay. So if we go past the interview, I'm totally cool with -- I want to know what your potential is, and what resources you can leverage. So I think of like two things: resourcefulness and resilience. Right? Those are the double Rs right there.
That's the quintessential pair, let's just say.
Mat Ryer
\[singing\] It's double Rs... It's the quintessential pair...!
Jerod Santo
Why did you stop? That was getting so good.
Mat Ryer
It's just a jingle in case you need it. In case that comes up again.
Jerod Santo
In case there's another quintessential pair that also starts with R.
Mat Ryer
Two Rs. Yeah.
Jerod Santo
That was a pretty good abstraction, actually. You didn't say the words, so...
Mat Ryer
There you go. Yeah.
Jerod Santo
...we can reuse it. Adam, think of another couple of Rs later...
Adam Stacoviak
Okay. I'll keep going.
Jerod Santo
So I think it was Socrates. I could be wrong on the details of the individual... But there is a very prominent philosopher/academic - I think it's Socrates - who was against writing things down, publicly. He came out and said "We shouldn't write." This was like at the advent of writing, perhaps.
Mat Ryer
Right.
Jerod Santo
The two Rs... \[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
\[00:07:43.09\] Writing and \[unintelligible 00:07:44.05\] And he just thought that we would lose our brains. Like, we would stop being able to remember things. And I recall when programmable phones were picking up, and you no longer had to memorize people's phone numbers. And there were some folks who were kind of offended by that... Because there was a social dynamic to like whose numbers do you have memorized? It kind of shows who's important to you in your life. And there's certain people like, "I'm just going to remember your phone number." And 10 years later, they're all off that. They're all done. It's over with.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, it's gone. Purged.
Jerod Santo
Why would you want to remember phone numbers if you don't have to? So...
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
I feel like some of it's the more typical just "Don't move my cheese" kind of stuff.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I get it. I get why people -- it was like with calculators in my... I remember my cousin wasn't allowed to use a calculator in one of his exams... But I was younger, and we were allowed to use calculators, and he was outraged. I mean, it was an English exam, so it didn't help, but still...
\[singing\] Sometimes your jokes don't go down so well... Don't worry. Don't worry. It's alright...
Just a little one for me there...
Jerod Santo
I like how you console yourself. I was just over here thinking how I just missed a huge opportunity when I said the two Rs, writing and \[unintelligible 00:09:05.11\] Because there actually were three Rs. If you recall, in early education, it was reading, writing, and arithmetic. And that's not even a joke. That's what they called it. I mean, it is a joke, but it's hilarious. And I missed that opportunity... So I'm just recovering that and getting it in there for the record.
Adam Stacoviak
Get it in there. I'm going to close the loop too for you...
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
So Socrates - you were correct.
Jerod Santo
Yes...!
Adam Stacoviak
It says "The philosopher most famously known for being against writing things down is Socrates."
Jerod Santo
Yes. I got it.
Adam Stacoviak
"Through his student Plato's writings, Socrates expressed concerns that writing weakens memory, and can lead to a false appearance of knowledge, rather than true understanding." And it goes on to say that he believed that writing was not an effective means of communicating knowledge.
Jerod Santo
He was saying that from a place of privilege, though. He had Plato to write all the stuff down for him.
Adam Stacoviak
Come on. Yeah. Right?
Jerod Santo
Some of us plebs have to write our own things down...
Adam Stacoviak
It was about being face to face, it seems. It says "To him, face to face communication was the only way one person could transmit knowledge to another."
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
It seems a little one-sided... Now, see - here's the thing, though, is that world was so much different.
Jerod Santo
Oh, yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
The amount of things you could know about was so finite compared to now.
Jerod Santo
When did he live?
Adam Stacoviak
I don't even know. Forever ago.
Jerod Santo
470 BC.
Adam Stacoviak
Gosh, so...
Jerod Santo
I just feel like I asked that question so I could tell you... I didn't. I actually was typing it in.
Adam Stacoviak
If you predate Jesus, it's a long time ago, right? I mean, come on...
Jerod Santo
That's right.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. But I get this, you know? When I'm communicating with somebody who is -- I don't know, let's say they might be an idiot, okay?
Jerod Santo
Present company excluded...
Mat Ryer
Yeah, not you. No, definitely not. Nobody on the Changelog platform, as far as I'm concerned.
Jerod Santo
Fair.
Mat Ryer
And I want to just go on the record saying that. No, but it's kind of a nice clue when you're texting with somebody or talking to them - like, you get clues about what's going on. And you sort of lose a bit of that if things are augmented. But we want everyone to be their best version, surely, and we want everyone to have the best chance... So I've got to come down on the side of that. And there's Apple Intelligence adverts that show -- this one guy, and he just like normally would say "Yeah, light it up. Yeah, I'm walking here!" That kind of character.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, my gosh...
Mat Ryer
And then Apple Intelligence changes it to be "Oh, I believe I was traversing the walkway before your vehicle approached..." You know, it changes it into something that sounds --
Adam Stacoviak
I had to interrupt this amazing story due to not paying for software. Loopback has introduced some noise, because we needed to use loopback to combine your piano and your microphone into a single one.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, there's a loopback going on.
Adam Stacoviak
And because you haven't paid for it - which I'm cool with; they are not. That's the problem.
Jerod Santo
Oh, it's on purpose.
Adam Stacoviak
It's on purpose.
Jerod Santo
That's cheeky. So I'm remembering this now. Adam, good job of identifying this. This is a good -- it's not shareware. What is it called? It's like trialware \[unintelligible 00:12:06.22\]
Adam Stacoviak
Destructiveware.
Jerod Santo
\[00:12:09.22\] Yeah, it's kind of annoying.
Adam Stacoviak
You can use it, but it will destroy your work.
Jerod Santo
Maybe right here we can insert one of those "A few minutes later..." and then we come back.
Adam Stacoviak
\[A few minutes later...\]
Jerod Santo
There you go.
Adam Stacoviak
We are now back from the noisiness of Loopback, and - destructiveware. You were saying that. What were you saying?
Mat Ryer
Well, first of all, I don't know if Loopback need to be doing that. I get it, free trial, and then you want to pay for it... But it's a bit cheeky, isn't it? What did it sound like to you?
Adam Stacoviak
The worst.
Jerod Santo
White noise? Just like really loud white noise.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. It progressed and got louder and louder, to the point we couldn't hear you at all.
Jerod Santo
I think they should give you like a seven-day or a 30-day -- I mean, that was like a 45-minute trial. Maybe less.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, probably less.
Jerod Santo
But we are fans of Rogue Amoeba software, but not necessarily that particular move they did right there.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, that was not cool.
Jerod Santo
And whatever story you were telling, Mat... I'm sure it was hilarious.
Mat Ryer
I don't remember now. Do you?
Jerod Santo
I don't either. Should we just move on?
Adam Stacoviak
I think we should. Yeah, let's move on to the good stuff. Here we go.
Jerod Santo
Let's tell each other some lies.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, gosh. I've got a lie for you.
Jerod Santo
Do you want to do these? Now, let's explain what we're doing here, Mat. Mat, this was your idea. It's similar to a game I play on JS Party called HeadLies, where I do a similar thing, except for it's just one person... So I'm very excited, because I've never actually gotten to participate. I've always been just the host. And today I'm a participant. So take us away, Mat. This was your idea. What are we going to do?
Mat Ryer
So we've got two truths and one lie. And these are tech headlines.
Jerod Santo
Right.
Mat Ryer
So we have to say the three, and then you've got to be able to figure out which is the lie, and which ones are the truths.
Jerod Santo
So each of us has brought three. And we'll each go in turn telling all three. And then the other two people have to try to detect the lie. Do you want to go first? You're the guest. Be our guest.
Mat Ryer
"AI has created new proteins that didn't exist before." That's number one.
Jerod Santo
That's number one?
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Number two, "A train in China has broken the sound barrier."
Jerod Santo
These are headlines? These seem like summaries...
Mat Ryer
Well, that's what a headline is.
Adam Stacoviak
I know, right?
Jerod Santo
Well, sometimes. Okay, keep going.
Adam Stacoviak
My version of this is not the same...
Mat Ryer
What's your preferred news outlet? I'll try and adapt it to that style.
Jerod Santo
The BBC, obviously.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, okay.
Jerod Santo
Okay, keep going.
Mat Ryer
And then number three, "AI has actually created a new color." Again, that was a summary, not a...
Jerod Santo
Okay, so AI has created new proteins...
Mat Ryer
A new protein. There's a super-fast train in China...
Jerod Santo
AI has created a new color...
Mat Ryer
A brand new color that's never been thought of before.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Okay, and then the train one - I think that one's true.
Mat Ryer
It's going faster than the speed of sound.
Jerod Santo
That is not that hard. There's cars that have done it.
Mat Ryer
It's quite fast, though...
Jerod Santo
I mean, a train doing that is significant... But you know, it's China. They've got --
Adam Stacoviak
How fast is the sound barrier? \[unintelligible 00:15:11.15\]
Jerod Santo
It sounds like a question for a robot, not a human.
Mat Ryer
I think it's about 700 miles an hour, from memory. But I could be wrong. I mean --
Jerod Santo
Is that right? Maybe cars haven't done it. Planes have done it, not cars.
Adam Stacoviak
770, approximately.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, I take that back. I don't think a car has ever done that.
Adam Stacoviak
1239 kilometers per hour. That's cool.
Mat Ryer
Quite fast.
Jerod Santo
Maybe those cars out in the desert, where they're just like...
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
I think they have broken it. I'm just waffling back and forth...
Mat Ryer
Yeah, the rocket car.
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I think they have.
Jerod Santo
Okay. So airplanes definitely break it then. But has a train in China broken it? Probably. I think they would figure that out.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, could be.
Jerod Santo
Okay, so I'm going with "AI has created a new color." I think that's impossible. You just -- all the colors exist, and all you've got to do is get the right hex code.
Adam Stacoviak
I don't know about this, Mat...
Mat Ryer
\[00:16:03.24\] Hex codes aren't the be all and end all of color, Jerod.
Jerod Santo
Well, for me, they kind of are. Oh, you're more of an HSL guy?
Mat Ryer
Hey, did you know that the yellow that you look at on a screen is a lie? It's not the same as yellow if you're looking at a yellow flower.
Jerod Santo
That's why I'm picking that one as a lie.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
I just -- I don't trust colors. Adam, what are you thinking?
Adam Stacoviak
Man, I'm still just thinking about these trains breaking the sound barrier... \[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
Maybe they haven't.
Mat Ryer
It'd be loud, wouldn't it? Imagine waiting for a train and that one zooms past and bursts your ears.
Adam Stacoviak
That's the one I think is a lie. I think that's the lie one.
Jerod Santo
You think the train one's a lie?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, I think the train one's a lie.
Jerod Santo
So you and I both agree that "AI created a new protein" sounds like something that they would be doing with it.
Adam Stacoviak
Totally plausible. Yeah.
Jerod Santo
What about "AI created a new color?"
Adam Stacoviak
Totally plausible.
Jerod Santo
How so? Don't all colors exist and they just need to be hex-coded?
Mat Ryer
Or just need to be discovered...
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, I think it's a discovery thing. I mean, invent and discover is --
Jerod Santo
He did say invent.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, okay. Well...
Mat Ryer
Yeah, but I gave a summary, not a headline.
Jerod Santo
Clearly you didn't give a headline.
Adam Stacoviak
The train is the lie.
Jerod Santo
Alright, so Adam's going with train. I'm going with color. Mat, is there some sort of like a prelude song that you'd play on the way up to this?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, probably. I would have thought so. \[singing\] "Have you ever considered a super-fast train? How about one that'll blow your ears out and destroy your brain? Yeah, it's super-loud, baby. Loud... And that one was true."
Jerod Santo
Yes...!
Mat Ryer
Congratulations. That one was true. I'm afraid... \[singing\] "The color of a blooming... Thing... As Jerod said, the colors all exist."
Jerod Santo
Yes...!
Adam Stacoviak
\[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
"So it can't be that one... Adam looks pissed, but he's fine. He's fine..."
Jerod Santo
Love it.
Mat Ryer
Congratulations!
Adam Stacoviak
I will concede that it's very -- it's more plausible for the train to have broken the sound barrier than it would be to invent a new color. However, I thought I had some prior knowledge to the Shinkansen, which is the most famous bullet train.
Jerod Santo
Oh.
Adam Stacoviak
And I knew its max speed because my son was such a fan of trains when he was growing up, like three, four, five; still is a fan... But we actually studied high-speed trains for a while. Like, just for fun, you know?
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
At like a four-year-old level, not like an academic level.
Jerod Santo
And none of them had broken the sound barrier.
Adam Stacoviak
No, none of them did, and they were all like the 400 range. So 700 and something is quite faster than 400, obviously... And imagine a train -- here's the thing with this speed train that you've got to think about... You have to consider so much further in the distance the dangers that are there. If you've got passengers on these trains... That's the whole point of them, they're passenger trains. And you go from here to there really, really fast. It's like, the time to break or the time to stop is so much distance that you have to have like the proper railway to have this distance, and stuff. So I just thought it was like less likely. I thought, "Well, you know... Find a color. Pick color."
Jerod Santo
Plus you won't hear it coming, you know?
Adam Stacoviak
That's right.
Mat Ryer
No, because it's faster than sound.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, exactly. It beats the sound to you.
Adam Stacoviak
That's actually -- I don't believe so. I think you would still hear it coming.
Jerod Santo
I was just joking. I also think you'll hear it. But you'll hear it a little bit later than it would arrive.
Adam Stacoviak
Delayed. Yeah, I was going to say, delayed. They can't hear themselves. Could you hear yourself going too fast? If you're going faster than sound, could you hear yourself?
Mat Ryer
Inside the train, the air is not moving that fast, I suppose. So they'll be fine. But yeah, if you were just traveling that fast...
Jerod Santo
There's weird physics around that, right? If you're in a moving vehicle and you throw a baseball up in the air, you can catch it. But then if you throw it out of it, then it still travels -- I don't know how it works, but you start to break your brain thinking about that...
Adam Stacoviak
Wind resistance there. Friction elsewhere.
Jerod Santo
There's inertia, there's wind resistance... There's lots of things going on.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Because the ball is traveling at that speed as well, relative to you.
Jerod Santo
Right. It's starting place is already that speed.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. It's already going dead fast, even if you're holding it.
Jerod Santo
But you don't notice it. Much like us. We're like turning around on this globe at like - how many miles per hour? But we have no idea.
Mat Ryer
\[00:20:23.20\] Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Seven. I think it was seven miles per hour we're traveling around the world.
Mat Ryer
Oh, that's not that fast.
Jerod Santo
Oh, one day per hour. No, one hour per hour.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah. \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
Finally, I landed on something closely correlated and true. Okay, I have my two truths and a lie...
Mat Ryer
Okay.
Jerod Santo
And let's see if you all can guess which one is the lie. Number one. Now, these are going to read more like headlines, because you know, I follow directions around here... But that's neither here nor there. Number one, "As TikTok ban looms, Meta is sponsoring TikTok posts that encourage US users to migrate to Instagram." That's number one.
Number two, "Developer fires entire team for AI, now ends up searching for engineers on LinkedIn." Number three, Miyamoto's son -", this is Nintendo's Miyamoto... "Miyamoto's son was so bad at SuperMario 64 that he questioned his parenting." There you have it. Two truths and one lie. What are you guys thinking?
Mat Ryer
That first one sounded long for a headline...
Jerod Santo
Oh, now you're judging mine, after those summaries you provided...?
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, my gosh...
Jerod Santo
Well, you know headlines have skewed more conversational in the last five years...
Mat Ryer
I think I know the answer to this, but Adam, what do you think?
Adam Stacoviak
Can I hear them again, please?
Jerod Santo
"As TikTok ban looms, Meta is sponsoring TikTok posts that encourage US users to migrate to Instagram." Number two, "Developer fires entire team for AI, now ends up searching for engineers on LinkedIn." Number three, "Miyamoto's son was so bad at Super-Mario 64, he questioned his parenting."
Adam Stacoviak
Man, they're all terrible.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
They're all terrible.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, but which one is not true? Two of those are true, by the way.
Adam Stacoviak
Two of those are true. I'm thinking the last one's not true.
Jerod Santo
Miyamoto's son?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. I don't know why... I can't give any more credence to AI here in this podcast so far... Although - we'll see.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I'm going to go with that one though, the AI one... Because I can't say AI, but what I can do is spot when Jerod's been a cheeky monkey...
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
I think it's a joke. It's quite funny that someone would fire all their team, and then -- do they use AI to search LinkedIn for people, though, at least, probably?
Jerod Santo
Well, you could read the rest of the article on techgig.com... Because I got that headline from techgig.com. That is a true headline. You are both -- well, sorry. Oh, no. I foreshadowed. You are both incorrect. It's not Miyamoto's son. It's not LinkedIn. The lie is "As TikTok ban looms, Meta is sponsoring TikTok posts and encourages US users to migrate to Instagram." I made that up!
Mat Ryer
Well, that could easily be true, right?
Jerod Santo
Right. Actually, it's kind of a good idea.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. If TikTok would let them.
Jerod Santo
Or maybe they are doing it, but no one wrote the headline.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Anyways, I feel bad for you guys, sort of... Like, I just hoodwinked you...
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
That's the game, though.
Jerod Santo
Adam looks doubly mad...
Adam Stacoviak
I'm just angry about most things, you know?
Mat Ryer
But that's the game, Jerod. Don't feel bad. Do you feel bad in Monopoly when you're like taking money off your kids?
Jerod Santo
Honestly, Mat, when I tell people I feel bad when I'm beating them in a game, it's -- I'm not really feeling bad. I just say that because I just feel like it's the appropriate thing.
Mat Ryer
Oh, that's sweet.
Jerod Santo
So...
Mat Ryer
That's a lie then. I vote that one as the lie.
Jerod Santo
\[00:23:57.26\] \[laugh\] Finally, he gets one right. Okay, Adam, why don't you do your turn, and share with us some truths and lies?
Adam Stacoviak
I'm bringing one close to home, really...
Jerod Santo
Okay.
Adam Stacoviak
...that goes back to Mat's world, in a way. I've got three headlines... Two that are true, and then one that's false.
Mat Ryer
Oh, that's interesting. \[unintelligible 00:24:20.17\]
Adam Stacoviak
Just so you're aware.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Okay, okay...
Adam Stacoviak
Which order should I read them in? Should I read the true ones first, or the false one first?
Jerod Santo
Read the false one first...
Mat Ryer
You have to mix it up.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay, here we go.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] If you read the false one first, I'm sure to get it.
Adam Stacoviak
This is the false one, just so you know. "US nuclear arsenal relied on eight-inch floppy disks until 2019."
Mat Ryer
Oh, wow...
Adam Stacoviak
Number two. "Scientists used slime molds to help design Tokyo's rail system." Number three, "Raspberry Pi is due to announce an SBC-style GPU to compete with Nvidia."
Jerod Santo
Okay, okay.
Mat Ryer
Good.
Jerod Santo
So can you say the middle one again? Slime molds?
Adam Stacoviak
Yes. "Scientists used slime molds to help design Tokyo's rail system."
Mat Ryer
Don't know what either one of them is.
Jerod Santo
I don't either. I'm not sure what slime molds are. Like slime, from Ghostbusters slime?
Mat Ryer
Slimer?
Jerod Santo
Yeah. What do you think they got him in to help consult?
Adam Stacoviak
I've got headlines only. I've got no context here, okay? These are headlines only.
Jerod Santo
I'm just trying to figure out if it's real or not, you know? If it's Ghostbusters-based, I'm going to assume it's a lie.
Mat Ryer
It's like, sorry we're late on the project, but hiring Slimer was a big mistake. \[unintelligible 00:25:39.24\] contributed nothing.
Adam Stacoviak
I won't tell you this, but I'll give you the details later, and you're going to love this. I've got more context.
Jerod Santo
Oh, he's going to give us details later. So that one, he's got an actual article. I've ruled it out. That's true.
Adam Stacoviak
Which one's true?
Jerod Santo
Slime molds.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay.
Jerod Santo
Because you've just said you have an article on it.
Adam Stacoviak
I didn't say on that one. I was saying on another one. That was a whole different one.
Jerod Santo
Oh, you just changed the subject and then told us you had information?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, I was thinking about something different. I was contextually somewhere else, you know?
Jerod Santo
Okay. What was the first one again?
Adam Stacoviak
Okay, yes "US - United States - US nuclear arsenal." You know where the United States is too, right, Jerod? You know where's that, the US? Okay. Mat, do you know where it's at?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, but I thought you were just saying us, because you're from there...
Jerod Santo
Yeah, just us.
Adam Stacoviak
Us. "Us nuclear arsenal relied on --"
Mat Ryer
\[laughs\] It is bad that you call your country "us".
Adam Stacoviak
Here we go. Oh, it's like AI.
Jerod Santo
Well, that's kind of appropriate, isn't it? I mean...
Adam Stacoviak
"Us nuclear arsenal relied on eight-inch floppy disks until 2019."
Jerod Santo
Eight-inch floppy disks. Those are the big ones.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Not even the save icon, is it that?
Jerod Santo
No, no, no. In fact --
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, that won't work for you.
Jerod Santo
How far does the eight-inch go back? Because I remember floppies, but I never used an eight-inch. It was always a three and a half inch.
Mat Ryer
I have handled an eight-inch one. I have had one in my hand, and they are floppy. This is where the name floppy disk came from, because I understood from the three and a half inch ones they weren't floppy. They were rock hard, because they were plastic, as a plastic card, I suppose. They weren't made of rocks.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
But the bigger ones, the eight-inch ones - I think they were eight inch - they were actually floppy. Actually, no. I'm thinking five and a half. I don't think I've seen eight either.
Jerod Santo
I mean, it's a big old disk.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. It's big. You can do some damage with that. I wonder what capacity, and how much you could get in.
Jerod Santo
Probably less than the five, and the half and three and a half.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, probably. I hope so. No, I don't know, because it was that direction of travel, wasn't it?
Jerod Santo
That's true. But I think they got better at density, or something. You know, smaller storage space over time...
Mat Ryer
I could easily be using it for some reason in an old antiquated nuclear something...
Adam Stacoviak
For the viewing audience... Jason, we can splice this and we'll see... This is a visual; audio audience only, I'm sorry.
Jerod Santo
Just imagine what eight inch, five and a quarter, and three and a half looks like.
Adam Stacoviak
I'm screen-sharing with our friends here, Jerod and Mat... My friends, our friends...
Jerod Santo
\[00:28:13.10\] Hello...
Adam Stacoviak
And on the left, you have the eight inch, in the middle you have the five and a quarter, I believe.
Jerod Santo
Five and a quarter, yeah. I was saying five inches. I cut the quarter in there.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. And then the three and a half, down at the very far right. And I think you're correct, Mat, saying that that one is more of a plastic card. I think you said plastic card.
Jerod Santo
That's the three and a half. Yeah. He said rock hard.
Adam Stacoviak
Rock hard.
Mat Ryer
Well, compared. I've had the middle one, the five and a quarter... And they were just very floppy.
Jerod Santo
Difficult to digest.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
"Us nuclear arsenal relied on eight inch floppiness." The one on the far left.
Jerod Santo
I think that's false. I think you made that up. I mean, eight-inch... But it's a nuclear arsenal; not a nuclear power plant, but arsenal. Like, actually firing nukes.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, but they have these antiquated systems, though, don't they? And they don't change them in --
Jerod Santo
This is a tough one. What was your third one again?
Adam Stacoviak
"Raspberry Pi, soon to announce SBC style GPU to compete with NVIDIA."
Jerod Santo
Now, what's an SBC style GPU?
Adam Stacoviak
Single-board computer.
Jerod Santo
Okay.
Mat Ryer
A single what computer?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, you know, the SBC is like super-cool, because you have this tiny little thing, and it's a single board computer.
Jerod Santo
And so they're going to compete with NVIDIA, like you're going to be doing inference on these things, or something?
Adam Stacoviak
I mean, I can speculate some, if you'd like... What I would say is like it's probably going to pair up with like the Raspberry Pi type thing... Because the Raspberry Pi doesn't -- it has GPU in it, but it's like not super-amazing. It does some stuff. You could do a media center on it, but you probably can't transcode 4K very well; or at least multiple streams. So I think those things have become popular, and so my guess - if this is true, of course - is that this SBC style GPU will pair up with a Pi to give you more GPU in this fanatic way of doing smaller computers, basically. Versus, let's just say the most recent, the RTX 50 or whatever, 5090 or whatever they've just released... That thing is huge. It's got three fans in it. Like, who wants that? You want a GPU that's smaller, SBC style. I'm not trying to overly sell this or anything, but I'm just saying; this could be a truth.
Mat Ryer
Oh yeah, it could be. Exactly. It could be true for -- it's not.
Adam Stacoviak
This could be true.
Mat Ryer
I think it's not. That's what I'm going to pick as the lie. The Raspberry Pi lie.
Adam Stacoviak
That's what you're choosing as the lie.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay, tell me why.
Mat Ryer
Well, I can believe the U.S. having some old systems and it still happens to need a big old disc. I don't know, the point of Raspberry Pi is all very low tech, LowFi stuff. They do have some bigger bits, but... I don't know. Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Maybe they're trying to diversify.
Adam Stacoviak
And you think -- what's the lie for you, Jerod?
Jerod Santo
Well, I wrote off the slime molds, because I think you were looking at the article while we were talking about it... Which means I didn't think about it very critically. But I'm still thinking that that's true.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay.
Jerod Santo
The Raspberry Pi story is exactly the kind of story that you would make up... So I'm leaning --
Adam Stacoviak
I would make up?
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
For a game...
Jerod Santo
Yeah. I mean, not just for in life \[unintelligible 00:31:21.27\]
Adam Stacoviak
Okay...
Jerod Santo
But I'm not sure where you'd see a report on the U.S. nuclear system and their floppies. To me, that just seems like -- like, is that a news? Is that news recently?
Adam Stacoviak
Well, to go back to our initiative here, we were told by our new friend here...
Mat Ryer
Hello.
Adam Stacoviak
...obscure tech headlines. These are clearly obscure tech headlines. And so I scoured the internet...
Jerod Santo
\[00:31:49.25\] Oh, you're saying that was a headline from 2019.
Adam Stacoviak
Well, it doesn't matter when it came. No, they did this until 2019. It doesn't mean that they -- the news is new.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. I just don't understand... Maybe there's like a FOIA request on the nukes...
Mat Ryer
Right.
Jerod Santo
The documentation on nukes.
Adam Stacoviak
I can't confirm where I've gotten this information, okay?
Jerod Santo
I just want to applaud you on your ability to put together three pretty good ones.
Adam Stacoviak
Okay, thank you.
Jerod Santo
Whereas you didn't like mine, and I fooled you utterly... I'm liking yours. Mat, I feel like you're about to break into some sort of song. Please do.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, not really, but...
Jerod Santo
Please stall for me.
Mat Ryer
\[singing\] "Tell me which one's the lie, please..."
Adam Stacoviak
It's a mini song. Is there more?
Mat Ryer
No, no, no. Well, there's another verse...
Adam Stacoviak
I like this. Are you a fan of Mario Kart? Oh, no, sorry, not Mario Kart. Mario Party.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, yeah. Hang on... I'll just do the second verse. Ready?
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
\[singing\] "I said, please..." That was it. It's not great.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, that was... That was kind of weak.
Mat Ryer
They're not all hits. That was an album track.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. Interstitials.
Adam Stacoviak
You didn't say please, though...
Jerod Santo
I was thinking you'd write something about eight-inch floppies, but we can definitely move on...
Mat Ryer
I'm saving that for later. Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Which one is the lie?
Jerod Santo
If I meta game this and my goal is to win... I won the first round by guessing Mat's, and Adam missing it. I won the second round by fooling both of you. And so if I merely tie in round three, I've kind of taken it all... So I'm gonna go with Mat. I'm going to say the Raspberry Pi is false. You've made that up.
Adam Stacoviak
It's so plausible though, right?
Jerod Santo
It's really good, yeah. It's really good. \[laughter\]
Adam Stacoviak
I actually want -- I want that to be true.
Mat Ryer
\[singing\] "Why lie about the Raspberry Pi? Why don't you tell the truth...?"
Jerod Santo
Amen!
Mat Ryer
"I don't know if you know the rules, but you kind of did it good... Adam, you did."
Jerod Santo
Go Adam!
Mat Ryer
"You did it good..."
**Break**: \[00:34:18.24\]
Adam Stacoviak
Here's the thing... This cool, this other truth one, the slime mold, okay?
Jerod Santo
What is the slime mold deal?
Adam Stacoviak
Okay, so they put bits of food to represent Tokyo's various population centers on a map, and then they let a slime mold, which is supposed to be smart, right? Like, it's genius, basically, which naturally seeks the most effective paths between food sources \[unintelligible 00:36:53.03\] And so this thing determined the network that could be a very plausible, very efficient path.
Jerod Santo
What...?
Adam Stacoviak
So they use slime molds to help design Tokyo's rail system. This is true.
Jerod Santo
Oh, to design it. See, I thought they were building it with slime molds.
Adam Stacoviak
Well, it said it, to help design Tokyo's rail system.
Jerod Santo
I know, but I didn't pay close enough attention.
Mat Ryer
That's amazing.
Adam Stacoviak
I think at a headline level you'd think that they use the slime mold to mold the train track kind of thing...
Jerod Santo
That's what I was thinking.
Adam Stacoviak
I understand that. And then obviously "Us Nuclear Arsenal rely on eight-inch floppy disks until 2019", this is a recent headline.
Jerod Santo
Really?
Adam Stacoviak
And the details behind this is that the Air Force finally modernized systems that ran on ancient hardware around 2019... But not before plenty of raised eyebrows in the tech circles.
Jerod Santo
Why?
Mat Ryer
Because they were using eight-inch floppies.
Adam Stacoviak
Because they were using eight-inch floppy disks.
Mat Ryer
Well, they \[unintelligible 00:37:43.18\]
Jerod Santo
Five and a quarter?
Mat Ryer
No, they must have jumped up to three and a half inch...
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. And then, honestly, I just was like -- I like Raspberry Pi's, they're cool... NVIDIA and GPUs are all the rage... And I just heard a headline. Basically, if you're a CPU maker, you're getting into GPU making. If you're a GPU maker, you're getting into CPU making. NVIDIA has CPUs coming out, and Intel has GPUs coming out. So they're flip-flopping. So what's the other thing out there that's maybe going to do this? Raspberry Pi. And an SBC style GPU, that attaches to these other smaller things would be totally cool.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, it would be cool. If they do it within a year, should we come back and take Jerod's points off him then?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, we should.
Jerod Santo
I'll concede those points.
Adam Stacoviak
Well, they're going to hear this, right? They're going to hear this.
Jerod Santo
Right. This is pretty much like market research for them.
Adam Stacoviak
We should totally be doing this. Like, let's get rid of these 8-inch floppy disks that we were thinking about. And let's do these SBC style GPUs.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, that's good.
Jerod Santo
I think we should take a moment to mourn that 8-inch floppy \*bleep\*.
Mat Ryer
Oh, it's happened. \[laughter\] It's happened.
Adam Stacoviak
Freudian slip...
Jerod Santo
8-inch floppy disk...
Mat Ryer
It's happened.
Adam Stacoviak
Try it again. \[unintelligible 00:39:04.29\]
Jerod Santo
It's a family show, Mat. It's a family show.
Mat Ryer
Normally, I'm the one that has to be told that.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] The eight-inch floppy disk manufacturer, that company that had the contract forever, that they could just keep selling their floppy disks to the government at some astronomical price, you know? After probably 40 years of that one big contract, they finally had to stop printing money and get a real job.
Adam Stacoviak
How many -- what's the N+ on the floppy disks do you think they had?
Jerod Santo
N+?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, like how many in reserve do you think they had to have to ensure the US arsenal, the US nuclear arsenal was safe? How many floppy disks?
Mat Ryer
Well, they probably didn't think they were going to need it until recent events... And then they're like "You know what? We actually should make sure this stuff works."
Adam Stacoviak
\[00:39:59.01\] Let's get 100 behind this. N + 100, you know?
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
We've got the one in the drive... We're safe. Then we've got 99 others sitting over there, waiting, just in case.
Mat Ryer
I wonder what's on the disk then. Like a code, you think?
Adam Stacoviak
A GPG key, or something like that.
Mat Ryer
Got to be, isn't it? It's not going to be like source code for the missiles, or something...
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, let's speculate this system. What could it actually do? If it ran on this hardware, is it running -- is it like a USB version of a software that runs on the USB, but instead it runs on the floppy?
Jerod Santo
Well, you used to boot off of a floppy, so maybe it's actually like the...
Adam Stacoviak
Boots into memory?
Mat Ryer
Right. It boots into memory and then runs off the memory.
Adam Stacoviak
Right. So this floppy gets put in, the program is accessible, it boots into memory... Boom goes the US arsenal.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
The nuclear arsenal.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, probably like that.
Jerod Santo
So the eight-inch floppy originally stored 80 kilobytes, in 1971. And then it went up to 256... Eventually maxing out at 1.2 megabytes. The five and a quarter introduced in 1976, single-sided, single density, 160K. And then they figured out double density, 360K. Eventually, they did a double-sided double density, 720K... And then double-sided high-density, 1.2 megabytes. So they finally made their way back up to the eight-inch. Maybe this is why the US nuclears are just like "We're cool with the eight-inch, man."
Three and a half inch introduced in 1980, started at 720K, double-sided high-density, 1.44. That's the most common. And then extra-high-density, 2.88 megabytes.
Adam Stacoviak
This is making me think of a museum. Is there a place in the world where there's a technology museum that isn't somebody's random basement, or some weirdo?
Jerod Santo
Absolutely there is.
Adam Stacoviak
There is?
Jerod Santo
Yeah, we were there. I'm not sure if we were there in the building together, Adam, but I've been there. It's in the Valley.
Mat Ryer
In San Diego, right? I mean, San Jose.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, it's called the Computer History Museum. Is that what it's called? It's really cool. I thought we were there together, Adam. Maybe I was there with somebody...
Adam Stacoviak
Were we there together? Maybe we were.
Jerod Santo
I think we were.
Adam Stacoviak
It must be ancient history then.
Jerod Santo
Well, there is no ancient computer history, because computers aren't ancient.
Adam Stacoviak
We haven't been to San Francisco together, I would say in about eight years... It feels like. At least six.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. If you go to computerhistory.org...
Mat Ryer
Yes, it's the Computer History...
Jerod Santo
...they have actually a pretty cool Instagram as well that I've checked out, where they still post stuff regularly, and they have new stuff coming in... I'm trying to find the actual address of the place to confirm. You were saying it's in San Diego? It's in Mountain View. I think we were there together, Adam. Mountain View, California.
Mat Ryer
I've been to Mountain View.
Adam Stacoviak
Was that when we were out to see user testing, maybe?
Jerod Santo
Yeah, that might be right.
Adam Stacoviak
My brain was a little scattered. We were doing something brand new, with high stakes, so...
Mat Ryer
\[unintelligible 00:43:04.04\]
Adam Stacoviak
\[laugh\] Yeah, totally.
Mat Ryer
That's what you can't remember.
Jerod Santo
No, he said high stakes. Oh, wait. That still works.
Mat Ryer
\[unintelligible 00:43:10.25\]
Jerod Santo
Yeah, high stakes is where you go afterwards. Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
I did have some other Raspberry Pi lies...
Jerod Santo
Okay, let's hear them.
Mat Ryer
Do we need a theme tune for Raspberry Pi lies?
Jerod Santo
Raspberry Pi lies writes itself.
Mat Ryer
It does, doesn't it, really? Let's see if it does. What key should it be in? Pick a key, any key.
Adam Stacoviak
A P. It should be in P.
Mat Ryer
Oh, that's not one. That's not one key.
Jerod Santo
How about A minor?
Mat Ryer
Yeah. That's A minor. What do you think, Adam? Higher or lower?
Adam Stacoviak
Uh, higher, always, as you know. \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
He likes high stakes.
Mat Ryer
\[singing\] "I want my Raspberry Pi lies, baby, feed them to me. I want to think that they're making GPUs, and gonna sell themselves to China. Tell me where we're gonna be in a thousand years time... But tell me through Raspberry Pi lies..."
Adam Stacoviak
\[00:44:21.20\] Well, they weren't really full-on lies. They were more like directions that I didn't flesh out. So I was thinking...
Mat Ryer
"They're more like directions that I was fleshing out... So I was thinking..."
Adam Stacoviak
I was thinking drones, like a Pico drone. Like make your own drone from a Pi.
Jerod Santo
Like a Pico drone.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah.
Mat Ryer
I want that.
Adam Stacoviak
And then I was thinking -- like, something solar, because I was like "Well, these things are so small... You want them to be in obscure places." Like, what if I wanted a switch? Like a WRT switch that's running open source stuff, that's not like power-accessible. Have a battery, maybe, or like a power pack... What if it was solar power, you know? So I was thinking like something solar, that direction.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
That's about it.
Mat Ryer
I'd have gone for the US military disks, if you'd said either of those two.
Jerod Santo
That's true.
Adam Stacoviak
But then I was thinking "Well, GPU... That's in the headlines now. It's CES recent, so..." There you go. Boom.
Jerod Santo
The challenge with solar is you need so much surface area.
Adam Stacoviak
Well, if it's small, though... Let's say if it's sub five watts, which is what it would probably be like; probably sub two watts. It's just a switch, and maybe Wi-Fi.
Jerod Santo
How much surface area do you need for that?
Adam Stacoviak
Probably not much. I mean, the size of a Pi, probably... Pi solar. Could you imagine this Pi solar? Raspberry Pi, if you're not listening to this podcast for ideas...
Mat Ryer
You should be.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, you should be. Yeah. I mean, here you go.
Mat Ryer
I like the drone idea. I kind of want a phone case that's got that on it, so if I do find I've lost my phone around the flat, I can press a button on my watch... Yeah, and it just flies to me.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, that'd be cool.
Mat Ryer
I mean, it might slice some people on the way...
Adam Stacoviak
Well, there's some really small drones out there. So back I want to say about six or so years ago, maybe seven years ago, in the early days of drones... They were expensive. They still kind of are expensive now. But there was these really small ones you could buy on Amazon, and they're like tiny, little toy things. So I'm thinking that'd be kind of cool, to build a drone from a Pi... But you probably can do that already, you know? All you need is a case, and compute. And then I suppose servos and stuff like that to do the motors.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, you just need a good old fast fan.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. One fan, go up \[unintelligible 00:46:47.20\] What's next? Is this show just based on truths and lies? Is there more?
Mat Ryer
Well, we finished, haven't we?
Jerod Santo
Yeah, I won.
Adam Stacoviak
Is this the show?
Mat Ryer
Jerod, you won that, didn't you?
Adam Stacoviak
I would say that I should get some points too, because I let you win. \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
Alright, you can have some of Mat's points.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. I mean, I don't need them.
Jerod Santo
He's not going to use them.
Mat Ryer
I can't spend them in this country. The exchange rate is terrible for points on game shows. That's why you don't get many Brits appearing on American shows...
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah...
Jerod Santo
We should have prizes, and then just give them to me at the end.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. If you win.
Adam Stacoviak
What can we give as a prize? Well, I'll tell you what, Jerod - you can master this episode. How about that?
Jerod Santo
Oh...
Adam Stacoviak
There you go.
Mat Ryer
That's nice.
Adam Stacoviak
It'd be fun.
Jerod Santo
I can do that.
Adam Stacoviak
It'd be fun.
Jerod Santo
Maybe I'll put in some applause, and congratulation sounds, maybe like that confetti... You know that one?
Mat Ryer
Yeah...
Adam Stacoviak
We should reach out to Loopback though, and Rogue Amoeba, to see if they want to sponsor the show...
Jerod Santo
\[00:47:51.25\] They should. We should have an episode that's just white noise, until the check clears...
Adam Stacoviak
That's right.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
"This show, brought to you by Rogue Amiba."
Jerod Santo
"Brought to you by shhhhhh-", you know?
Mat Ryer
It's a shame it's that sound. It could have been a lovely little ditty, or a Snoop Dogg track...
Adam Stacoviak
I'll tell you what --
Jerod Santo
Well, the licensing fees, you know...
Adam Stacoviak
...I do think it'd be kind of cool to augment whatever's being done. And like if you were speaking, now you're not Mat, now you're Snoop Dogg, what you said, you know...
Jerod Santo
Or they could do the Charlie Brown parent thing... Like, you just are "Wah, wah, wah, wah..." That would actually be pretty cool.
Adam Stacoviak
That'd actually be kind of funny.
Jerod Santo
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Good marketing, because you could probably use it like an unintended consequence. Next thing you know, like --
Jerod Santo
Right. Or bad marketing, because people won't upgrade. They're just like "I want the Charlie Brown sound, so I'm gonna keep it."
Adam Stacoviak
That's right. "Well, where'd you get that?" "Well, this free trial of Rogue Amoeba software called Loopback. Just go get it. It's free." That'd be cool. \[laughter\] That's good marketing. More ideas for these people...! \[unintelligible 00:48:47.18\]
Jerod Santo
I know... Well, you're an idea guy.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, man...
**Break**: \[00:48:54.24\]
Jerod Santo
One other thing we could talk about was - just to throw some flowers at Mat, in addition to your amazing piano skills... I hear you recently won an award yourself, didn't you?
Mat Ryer
I did, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Can you tell us about this?
Adam Stacoviak
Is this true or is it a lie?
Mat Ryer
No, this is true. I couldn't believe it.
Jerod Santo
I was gonna have you tell the story and have Adam guess, but you've already ruined it. This is true.
Mat Ryer
Well, I've said it's true. I mean, if I was lying, that is what I would say, to be fair...
Jerod Santo
Yea, that it's true.
Mat Ryer
I have ruined it. It is true.
Jerod Santo
\[00:51:49.00\] Yeah, it's completely ruined. Go ahead, tell us the story.
Mat Ryer
This was the OpenUK, which is an organization that works and celebrates open source software... And I think because of a little package I wrote with a friend of mine called Testify - you may have heard of it... Have you heard of it, Adam?
Adam Stacoviak
I do declare. It's a version of testifying.
Jerod Santo
That is. Declaring, testifying...
Mat Ryer
He has voided the answer. Cool.
Jerod Santo
You know I've heard of it, Mat.
Mat Ryer
Have you?
Jerod Santo
Well, from you, on GoTime.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. I don't stop banging on about it, to be honest...
Jerod Santo
Yeah, you just won't shut up about it.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Actually, what I've found out from Jonathan Amsterdam, from the Go team at Google - it's the most imported Go package in the world, by about three times, or something.
Jerod Santo
Wow.
Mat Ryer
So it's like an assertion package that helps you assert equal...
Jerod Santo
Write some tests.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, it helps you with your testing.
Jerod Santo
Doesn't Go have that stuff built in?
Mat Ryer
Well, it deliberately doesn't. And what you're told to do, really, by the Go team is to write native Go code, and that's your test. And there's nothing new for someone to learn...
Jerod Santo
And you don't want to do that.
Mat Ryer
Well, I just wasn't used to it... And I was used to this assertion library. And it turns out -- I mean, it's the most imported Go package by three times, or whatever... It turns out, I think, people want that. But there's a weird little rub around when you pass variables into methods. In certain cases, it can change. You don't really want that happening in your test suite stuff.
Jerod Santo
Isn't that called shadowing, or something like this?
Mat Ryer
I don't know, honestly.
Jerod Santo
Okay. Is this like a Go Piccadilly, or is this a programming thing?
Mat Ryer
It's a Go-specific Piccadilly.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. \[laughs\] Did I use that word right?
Mat Ryer
I have no idea.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
I doubt it.
Jerod Santo
Probably not... I've been using words wrong all day.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Maybe you meant Piccalilly, which is \[unintelligible 00:53:42.28\]
Jerod Santo
Perhaps.
Mat Ryer
\[unintelligible 00:53:45.25\] But it's real yellow, and not fake computer yellow... Unless you're seeing it on a computer.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, you can't be trusted any longer. You've been telling these...
Mat Ryer
You can't trust yellow. No, no.
Jerod Santo
Now I'm just googling Piccadilly, see if it's a real thing...
Mat Ryer
It's a place in London. There's an area.
Jerod Santo
Oh, that's right. It's like a square.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
Isn't it a square?
Mat Ryer
No, it's a circus.
Jerod Santo
What's a circus? A circus is where the elephants are.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Jerod Santo
So there's a circus in London...
Mat Ryer
Called...
Jerod Santo
Piccadilly.
Mat Ryer
Piccadilly. That's it.
Jerod Santo
And this is where like elephants stand on their two heels, and then lions jump through?
Mat Ryer
Yeah. It's a very popular tourist attraction.
Jerod Santo
Is it a circle?
Mat Ryer
It's not really like much of a circle, but it probably was originally.
Jerod Santo
Okay. Is that what a circus is? A circle?
Mat Ryer
I've only put that together talking to you now.
Jerod Santo
I mean, let me just say, the US audience here - we don't know what a circus is, unless it's Barnum and Bailey's.
Adam Stacoviak
That's the best circus in the world.
Jerod Santo
That's right. So you're not doing a very good job of explaining why Piccadilly is a circus.
Mat Ryer
No, I can't help it.
Jerod Santo
You also called it a place.
Mat Ryer
A place.
Jerod Santo
So we're very confused. Adam, are you confused?
Adam Stacoviak
I'm also confused, about something else. So tell me if you know this URL... GitHub.com...
Jerod Santo
I do.
Mat Ryer
Yup. Yup. I've heard of that.
Adam Stacoviak
Slash \[unintelligible 00:55:02.10\]
Jerod Santo
Say what?
Mat Ryer
Nearly...
Adam Stacoviak
Does that ring a bell to you, Mat?
Mat Ryer
Stretchr.
Adam Stacoviak
Stretchr.
Jerod Santo
Oh, is this Testify?
Mat Ryer
Yeah. That's the startup that we had when we made Testify. So we put it in the company name... Not my own personal name. Now I'd be world-famous, had I...
Jerod Santo
You already are. You won an open source award.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah. I forgot -- I didn't finish telling you that. I got a medal... They sent me a medal.
Jerod Santo
What color was it?
Mat Ryer
Golden.
Jerod Santo
Oh, golden. That's first place.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. I think everyone gets that though. It wasn't like a race... But there you go. So yeah, it was the Open UK Honours, New Year's Honours list. And genuinely, it is quite nice to get that. Normally I don't win things like that, but... Quite honoured to get it, really.
Adam Stacoviak
\[00:55:55.17\] What do you think is that stretchr.com, spelled this funny way? S-T-R-E-T-C-H-R.com. What do you think is there?
Mat Ryer
Well, I know that we let the domain expire, and someone else got it. So...
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, that's why I was confused. Like, what do these folks have to do with Testify for Go? Because it's a stretching company. Like, you go there and you get stretched.
Mat Ryer
What's that? What do you mean you get stretched...?
Adam Stacoviak
So I was thinking like "Mat, what is going on with your software?" What did you write this for to be stretched?
Mat Ryer
Well, originally this was like a MongoDB style API, so for web and app developers; you'd be able to just start posting data to RESTful endpoints. They didn't have to exist. And it would create the RESTful -- you know, the data, it would just persist it, and then when you'd get it, and get the list, and it would all just work. So that was the idea, to make development quicker, and it gives you like a backend... So kind of like a schema-less data store thing. And the idea was --
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, you're describing what your idea was, not this stretching idea they've got.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
I see.
Mat Ryer
From what you've said, it sounds like they're going to stretch you, like Stretch Armstrong, or something.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, they're doing something different altogether.
Mat Ryer
But I need to make sure that that domain name is not on the project.
Adam Stacoviak
It is. That's how I found it. It's on the GitHub organization...
Mat Ryer
I'm going to go and change that right now.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, I would definitely change that, because that's confusing. I don't think anybody cares... I guess actually three times as many other folks who download or install any packages - or whatever you call them - in their Go programs and software, they care. But they're not on your org, looking at what URL goes back to the source for Stretchr.
Mat Ryer
No, but it is a concern. And I checked the emails to make sure that there were no emails that were, you know...
Adam Stacoviak
I would do this, though. I would first email these folks at the new Stretchr, and I would let them know that you've been promoting their stuff for a few years now, and that there's royalties to be paid.
Mat Ryer
Okay, yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, I'd let them know that first, prior to -- and take a screenshot and share that with them, and then say "I've since stopped, but you owe me backpay."
Mat Ryer
Maybe I could take that payment in stretches. So they could just come and just --
Adam Stacoviak
That's right. "I'm willing to barter. I could use a stretch."
Jerod Santo
A body stretch. Can I close the loop on Piccadillos?
Adam Stacoviak
Please do.
Jerod Santo
Have you ever seen the movie Good Will Hunting?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, at least once.
Jerod Santo
So Robin Williams character, Sean, tells Will this story about how his wife farts in her sleep.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, yeah, she farts.
Jerod Santo
And will cracks up about it. Sometimes she farts so loud she wakes herself up.
Mat Ryer
Alright. Yeah. I've done that.
Jerod Santo
Yeah. And they're laughing about it... And Sean says "That's the stuff that I remember", because she's dead, right?
And that's not a spoiler, because that's like the start of the plot. So trailer spoiler -- can you have a trailer spoiler? It's probably in the trailer. Trailer spoiler... Okay. And he says "That's the stuff I remember, the fact that she farted in her sleep", which is funny. \[Little things like that, that happened. Those are the things I miss the most. Those little idiosyncrasies that only I know about. That's what made her my wife... Only she had the goods on me, too. She knew all my little Piccadillos.\] And he goes on from there. He's referring to idiosyncrasies, and he uses the word Piccadillos. And I just assumed that that was a word. But I can't find that word anywhere else except for when Robin Williams said it... As you two were talking about stretching or something, I'm not sure what you guys were talking about.
Adam Stacoviak
How would you spell that, in your version of it, Jerod?
Jerod Santo
Well, I spelled it like Piccadillo Square -- or sorry, Circus. Or Circle. And that was wrong. But according to this website here called Wikiquote, it's spelled P-E-C-C-A-D-I-L-L-O-S.
Mat Ryer
\[00:59:58.22\] But you sort of know what it means, even though it's not a word.
Jerod Santo
You totally know what it means. Actually, it is a word, I was probably just spelling it wrong. "A small sin or a fault, a slight trespass or offense. A petty crime, a trifling fault." So that's what I was talking about with Go. It was like this little sin of Go, shadowing variables and stuff...
Adam Stacoviak
Come on...
Mat Ryer
I see.
Jerod Santo
And not having built-in test assertions.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Well, the Go team -- actually, Testify is banned at Google.
Jerod Santo
Oh, is it? And you don't use it anymore. I know that.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I do use it because there's lots of projects that use it.
Jerod Santo
But not in new stuff.
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I don't. Because I just have a smaller version, which is on my own GitHub, just called is. And it's just like three or four methods. Testify has so much power in it. It's one of those things where if you're a pro user and you're doing a lot of testing, Testify is for you.
Jerod Santo
And it's super-popular, so probably a bunch of people came by and added their own little peccadillos...
Mat Ryer
Yeah. And they fixed it, so now there's armadillos in it... Everything.
Jerod Santo
All kinds of dillos. \[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
So many dillos...
Mat Ryer
Actually, we did have the policy -- we had a policy of anybody that contributed to PR was added to the project. So this was like an experiment, really, which I probably regret, only because it meant that it just blew up, it ballooned. The API is enormous.
Adam Stacoviak
Now, did they get awards too, or what happened there? Did you even mention them?
Mat Ryer
Who?
Adam Stacoviak
Who?
Mat Ryer
Mention who?
Jerod Santo
Exactly. \[laughter\]
Mat Ryer
I don't know who I've slandered there, because I genuinely didn't hear it...
Jerod Santo
Mat, when you took this open source award, this medal, this gold medal, did you mention all the little people that helped you along the way? All these contributors?
Adam Stacoviak
The peccadillos...
Mat Ryer
Yeah. Of course I did. I mean, I didn't give a speech anywhere, but I said it to myself out loud in the mirror.
Jerod Santo
Oh, there wasn't a speech? This wasn't like an award show, or something?
Mat Ryer
No, it's just...
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, man. I was hoping to put the footage up, and stuff.
Mat Ryer
That'd be nice. Well, we could make that.
Adam Stacoviak
Let's do it right now.
Jerod Santo
You should do an acceptance speech that we could send to them. Oh, that's a lot of pressure...
Mat Ryer
This is good.
Jerod Santo
You could sing it.
Mat Ryer
Now, I would have improvised it anyway...
Adam Stacoviak
Mat, here is your award for being great in open source. Go.
Mat Ryer
Wow.
Adam Stacoviak
Who do you want to thank?
Mat Ryer
I just want to thank all the little people first... They're tiny, or they're really far away. Either way... But they've helped. And you don't have to have contributed a lot to open source, like I have with Testify, the most important project in the world, I think... Jerod, were those your words?
Jerod Santo
Maybe...
Mat Ryer
But thank you very much for this lovely medal. And I'd like to thank all my family as well... I'm holding it because it came with a ribbon, so I'm just holding it up. Yeah. And keep open-sourcing, everyone. Bye! That sort of thing.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] That sort of thing.
Adam Stacoviak
Not bad.
Jerod Santo
Now, if you had to do that in song, for instance, what would that sound like?
Mat Ryer
Well, I'd only have one hand, because I'm holding the medal.
Jerod Santo
Well, just go strong hand only...
Mat Ryer
Okay...
Adam Stacoviak
"Hold my strong hand..."
Mat Ryer
Hold my strong hand... \[singing\] "I want to thank all the little people... I don't know why you're so tiny... But you helped me make this project by typing things in on your tiny keyboard... Oh, baby, one day you'll be big...! Thank you for my award, thank you for my award... Thank you for my lovely medal..."
Adam Stacoviak
Speaking of medals, Jerod, were you referencing, like I was, Scary Movie 2?
Jerod Santo
At which point?
Adam Stacoviak
When you said "Take my strong hand."
Jerod Santo
No, I was laughing at you, because I know you said that previously during a \#define game after Taylor Troesh gave you that little hand at Strange Loop...
Adam Stacoviak
\[01:04:11.28\] That's right. \[laughs\]
Jerod Santo
And you held the little hand up and you said "Take my strong hand." I was laughing because I knew that was a callback, and I knew Mat didn't know that was a callback, so I was also laughing for that reason...
Adam Stacoviak
Still got it. I've still got my hand.
Jerod Santo
He still has his -- there it is.
Adam Stacoviak
"Take my strong hand..."
Jerod Santo
So this is this is a Scary Movie 2 quote?
Adam Stacoviak
It's actually a Mandela effect.
Jerod Santo
Oh, it's not actually in there.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, people largely -- I'm talking like a massive population... Strongly, emphatically believe that he said "Take my strong hand."
Jerod Santo
Who?
Adam Stacoviak
In the in the movie.
Jerod Santo
He.
Adam Stacoviak
I'd have to show you the clip. I don't know the person's name.
Jerod Santo
But he actually said what?
Adam Stacoviak
"Take my little hand."
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] Why the hell do they think he said strong then?
Adam Stacoviak
Exactly. Mandela effect, bro.
Jerod Santo
But why?
Adam Stacoviak
I don't know why Mandela effect happens. It just does.
Mat Ryer
Huh.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, a lot of people believe. I mean, there's a lot of people who -- I believe it. I remember that.
Jerod Santo
You just told us he said that like five minutes ago.
Adam Stacoviak
I know, but he didn't. The truth is that he said "Take my little hand."
Jerod Santo
Huh.
Adam Stacoviak
"You take my little hand."
Jerod Santo
I didn't know a lot of people watched that movie and had commentary on it.
Adam Stacoviak
It's a lot of people. Yeah, it's a very popular unpopular film. I mean, it's Scary Movie 2.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, exactly.
Adam Stacoviak
Come on. It's a sequel.
Jerod Santo
That's exactly my point. You're making my point for me.
Adam Stacoviak
Come on now.
Jerod Santo
I could imagine you saying -- you know, when Darth Vader says "Luke, I am your father", he never says that.
Adam Stacoviak
Well, that's a shame, honestly.
Jerod Santo
And that's a shame; that's what everybody thinks he said.
Adam Stacoviak
Why? So why does everybody else believe that?
Jerod Santo
It's the Mandela effect.
Adam Stacoviak
The Mandela effect.
Jerod Santo
Because it's kind of like what he should have said if George Lucas was a slightly better writer...
Adam Stacoviak
I love that compression, though. You don't have to explain anything besides Mandela effect. That's just it.
Jerod Santo
That's right.
Adam Stacoviak
That's the beauty of memes and compression.
Mat Ryer
But Mandela did exist, right? He's not part of the Mandela effect, is he?
Adam Stacoviak
Well, he's the inventor of it, unbeknownst to him.
Jerod Santo
Are we talking about Nelson Mandela? Who are we talking about?
Adam Stacoviak
Nelson Mandela. Yeah. So to my knowledge - this is what I know about it. The Mandela effect came about because there was a large - again, a large population of people who emphatically believed that he had passed away years before he did not pass away. So he passed away much later, truthfully, but people believed he had died many, many years before that. And there's a lot of people, and they're like "I remember seeing the headline. I remember seeing the news reports" etc. Meanwhile, he did not. And so this birthed this, I suppose, the name to the phenomenon that seems to have happened throughout history, where a large population misremembers or has memory of an alternate dimension.
Mat Ryer
Oh, right.
Adam Stacoviak
Now, if you go back to the --
Jerod Santo
"Oh, right." Like that was just a totally normal thing to say. \[laughter\]
Adam Stacoviak
What's the thing...? I'm trying to remember what the... If somebody else would be a scientist here, they would know what I'm talking about. There's a place over in your area, Mat, in the European region, I suppose, where they have like these...
Mat Ryer
In CERN?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, CERN, this collider. Yeah, yeah. Tell me, what's it called again?
Mat Ryer
The CERN particle accelerator.
Adam Stacoviak
The CERN particle accelerator. There you go. I like the way he says it. So they believe that when this began to happen, it started to create fractures in timelines, and like alternate realities. Now, I don't know how plausible this is, but it's crazy as it'll get out there. Like, you're smashing particles together, and you're rippling time, and space, and whatever. The Mandela effect, there you go.
Jerod Santo
They should have called it the Jimmy Carter effect, because I thought he was dead a long time ago.
Adam Stacoviak
Me too.
Jerod Santo
It turns out he made it to a hundred.
Adam Stacoviak
That's why tomorrow I'm not celebrating. Everybody's going to mourning, I'm gonna be like "Listen, the guy had a good life. He died twice."
Mat Ryer
\[01:08:04.09\] Yeah, I witnessed one of these. There was a guy - he still is a guy - called Frances Campoy, who is big in the Go community. I think he works at Apple now. Yeah. He's great. I love him, actually. I should text him probably. Yeah, anyway.
Adam Stacoviak
Text him right now.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
And then while you do that, sing. \[laughter\]
Jerod Santo
And accept the medal. You've never finished your story.
Mat Ryer
So we were after some Go conference, and he was talking about seeing Freddie Mercury in Barcelona. And my friend, David Hernandez, who I did the Machine Box project with, he was like "Yes, I was there. I saw that, too." And then there was a guy there who was a big nerd on Queen and Freddie Mercury, and he said "No, he can't have been, because he died the year before."
Jerod Santo
Whoa.
Mat Ryer
And they're like "No, no, no, no. It was --"
Adam Stacoviak
See?
Mat Ryer
And they had it. The Mandela effect.
Jerod Santo
That's one of those moments where you think that perhaps you're in great harm, you know? Like, you're in harm's way.
Mat Ryer
Do you?
Jerod Santo
Well, it's like a twist at the end, where you're like "Wait a second, the call's coming from inside the house?"
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah.
Jerod Santo
Like, it couldn't possibly be. He's been dead for years. And you're like \[unintelligible 01:09:15.06\] Because you just had lunch with him, for instance.
Adam Stacoviak
Right. And you have the refrigerator door open, and as soon as you close it... \[unintelligible 01:09:24.29\]
Jerod Santo
Right. And his hook is hanging on the rearview mirror of your truck.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, yes. I knew what you did last summer. I knew it! I know what I knew.
Mat Ryer
So Freddie...
Jerod Santo
Exactly.
Adam Stacoviak
Oh, my God...
Jerod Santo
The two F's.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Both Freddies.
Jerod Santo
It reminds me of a song. The one about two R's... How'd that go?
Mat Ryer
Oh, no. There's no memory. There's no memory.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
Double R.
Jerod Santo
Yeah, I don't remember it either.
Adam Stacoviak
It's actually triple. Reading, writing, arithmetic.
Mat Ryer
It's good, isn't it?
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah. Why is he not singing? We keep prompting him to sing, but he won't do it.
Mat Ryer
You know that kid on that movie where Bruce Willis is dead the whole time? Trailer spoiler, and also in the whole film...
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Mat Ryer
He's dead. He's dead the whole time. And then they show you --
Adam Stacoviak
You don't have to watch the movie at all if you know this situation.
Jerod Santo
Right, right, right.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. By now, I think that ship has sailed.
Adam Stacoviak
I'm going to go back and rewatch that movie, actually.
Jerod Santo
That's a great movie. By the way, if my kids are listening to this, stop right now. Actually, a few seconds before this, because we're going to watch that together. And I don't want them to be spoiled.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jerod Santo
But they love the Mat Ryer episodes.
Adam Stacoviak
Tell them now to stop listening a minute ago.
Jerod Santo
I just did, but... Dang it.
Adam Stacoviak
It's great.
Jerod Santo
I'll have to go back in time.
Mat Ryer
Well, you can edit that.
Adam Stacoviak
Yeah, you could.
Jerod Santo
Edit myself in in the future. Actually, it's in the past. It depends on how you think about it. Okay, but yeah, good movie. I do remember that.
Mat Ryer
Jerod, I think you should talk to your kids and not rely on communicating with them through a podcast.
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\] I'll consider it. I'll take it into consideration.
Mat Ryer
Yeah. No, but the little kid's like "I see dead people." And it's like "Yeah, everyone can. You don't go invisible when you die. That's not a film. This is not a film, kid." And if I was Bruce Willis in that, I'd be saying that to him. I'd be like "What are you talking about, mate? Of course you can see dead people."
Jerod Santo
\[laughs\]
Adam Stacoviak
Did you see then -- who was it? There was a comedian that told this story about this film...
Jerod Santo
Did Mat just take his joke, and act as if it was his own?
Adam Stacoviak
No, no, no... But it reminds me of it, because they said it was -- oh, it was Nate Bargatze. And we love him, because he's a very tasteful comedian. He doesn't have to cuss, or...
Jerod Santo
Yeah. He's clean, he's hilarious...
Adam Stacoviak
He's not saying anything egregious at all. And he said it was more plausible to the listening and watching audience that his wife didn't want to talk to him, than him being dead. \[laughter\] That was a version of his punchline. It was more plausible that this woman was ignoring him for a year, the whole film, basically, ignoring him completely, than for him to be dead.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
What a shame.
Mat Ryer
No, that's a good point.
Adam Stacoviak
What a shame.
Jerod Santo
\[01:12:00.18\] So here's what I would like to have in life. I'd like to have a MatGPT, which is, of course, a musical intelligence that could answer my beck and call. Like, if I had to say "Hey MatGPT, could you summarize this podcast?" Because GPTs can summarize, man.
Mat Ryer
Oh, yeah. They're good at that.
Jerod Santo
And sometimes they can summarize in musical fashion, if they happen to be a musical MatGPT.
Mat Ryer
I see.
Jerod Santo
Could I have one of those?
Mat Ryer
Yeah, I think so.
Jerod Santo
Okay.
Mat Ryer
What key would you like it in? By the way, this is a flex, because you say the key and then I really play it in that key, and then the listening audience \[unintelligible 01:12:34.24\]
Jerod Santo
Musical people understand this, but for me it's just more like stress, because I don't know any more keys... I already gave you A minor, and I don't know the other ones. And Adam said P...
Adam Stacoviak
That was a joke.
Jerod Santo
B. Is that a good one? Is that the same as A minor?
Mat Ryer
No, it's not the same.
Adam Stacoviak
C major?
Jerod Santo
Mat, what's the best key for a summary?
Mat Ryer
That's a good question. Probably E flat, if we're just being honest...
Jerod Santo
Which we haven't been.
Mat Ryer
\[singing\] "Well, thank you for joining us... I hope you had a good time, baby, because I know that I did. I had a lovely time... Now it's time to go and get some R&R... Take it down. Have a relax, and play some SuperMario. If you've got an ancient floppy disk on you, yeah, then you'll be fine when nuclear war breaks out... And if you want to know how to make it out alive, I suggest you get the slime mold to show you how... This is a family show, yeah, but how many kids listen? I don't know... Probably not that many, not yet anyway, not yet anyway... Now, we've had a good time, yeah... We're going for some high stakes after this. I like high stakes. This is my strong hand, take it, please... Take my strong hand, and I'll take you to CERN... And we'll discern if they've broken the Universe. And next time we'll see you on the Changelog & Friends... This is the end... And now for some Loopback white noise..." \[unintelligible 01:15:11.04\]
Adam Stacoviak
Not bad. Great job, Mat. I actually think, now that you've done that white noise, I think they stole that from you. Yeah, I think they ganked your white noise, bro.
Jerod Santo
You should get some licenses from them.
Mat Ryer
Yeah.
Adam Stacoviak
Bye, friends.
Jerod Santo
Bye, y'all. Thanks, Mat.
Mat Ryer
Bye! Thank you.
Jerod Santo
"Take my strong hand..."
